Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

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Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby mcgon1979 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:41 pm

Well, what can you say really. I put the cat back into the car and it was grand. Everything 100% including emissions.... but... NOISE.
He was revving the BEJAYSIS out of my car before he even went in, I dunno. It's strange though because the car under load does not sound loud at all really, not with the CAT in. but if you JAB the exhaust pedal it does make a BARRRPPP noise obviously. This is what he was doing.
He said he tested it revving to 3500rpm, but from where I was looking and listening it was more like 5000rpm easily and I obviously can make a good estimate at that as I've been driving it for 4 years.
He showed me the memory on the dB reader to prove it had 122dB on it. thats hard to believe. Thats like aircraft jet engine noise.
The NCT manual says that if a sound test is required the car must be moved to the sound test area. Mine was not.

"NOTES
1. If the NCT vehicle inspector deems that the level of noise caused by the vehicle exhaust is excessive, the
specific level of noise is to be measured. The vehicle must be moved to the sound test area. The vehicle
will be required to have a level of noise less than 99dB(A) in order to pass the test."

I doubt that would make any difference. The car is perfect otherwise. Kept in doors for 4 years, no rust, no issues, and spent a lot recently on timing belot and plugs so I'm hesitant to consider scrapping it or selling it cheap with no NCT. Crying shame. But I am not prepared to spend 100s on it for this crap. Disappointed. Could just risk the 6 penalty points and not bother with the retest. hmm.. Only been stopped once in 4 years by gardai when I was due an NCT and he just said "you getting that done" yep. move along. It's passed 2 NCTs in the past 4 years no issue, but this noise thing is only from April 2010 so thats why its not been an issue before.

Anyone know where I can get the back box off a standard FTO? Anyone got one I can borrow? Would that even be enought to kill the sound? Or would I need to replace the middle box too? The whole fecking thing from cat back? :( :(

ARGH..

Words of magic appreciated.. :|
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby mcgon1979 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:49 pm

Here is the exhaust. It's a zigen pro racer.
Apparently this noise is a FAIL/REFUSAL I think its SAVAGE/PASS

:D

The car...... From Youtube.com
Last edited by mcgon1979 on Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby optical illusion » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:52 pm

Bullsh1t, get it tested somewhere else. And yes, it has to go to a sound room to be tested. I think they are only meant to rev and hold at 3500, sure who in their right mind would be driving a 5k all the time, that's nearly where mivec kicks in. You can download Soundmeter app free of charge on Android if you want to test yourself.

There is no way in hell that is 122db. My boyf has an elise with straight through pipe and decat, and he failed at 111db in Spa and Snetterton before track days and had to get a cock to silence it on track. Let me tell you now, that 111 is really, really fooking ear piercing loud, to the point where I had to wear ear plugs on the motor way. So trust me when I say, if your car was the above, you would know all about it well before the NCT.

And, by the way, it was never brought up at the NCT either. And this is why I think the whole NCT is a money making racket.
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby mcgon1979 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:00 am

Yeah I'm disappointed. There was no manager there as it was 9pm, and the other guy (the senior man) agreed with the guy who tested my car and said "its too noisy" as he walked past.
I also suggested that surely it just needs to be held at 3500 to test the noise (no noise at all when held like this) but he said he needs to rev it fast to 3500 to make the noise etc. I dunno. It's a sham.
I'm not a sound engineer but I agree with you 100% alright. There is NO WAY its 122dB. Maybe if he puts the mic into the exhaust and revs it to redline, and even at that, I'm not sure it could be over 110dB. I know how loud this is. Cover your ear stuff. No way my car near that.
Maybe I ring the manager on Monday and tell him the car was not moved to sound testing area etc, but I feel he may just offer to do the test again and will really be trying to find fault with it then. I dunno. I have 4 weeks now to decide what to do. Even if I do get a standard back box, the thoguhts of having to ramp it and change it over every 11 months is sick. :(
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby mcgon1979 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:16 am

reading a few other forums.. Its actually seems impossible my car is 122Db compared to the figures others are quoting.
I dunno what to do now. steel wool in the backbox some are suggesting :)
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby Myfeckin FTO » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:42 am

This guy was clearly a pleb. An F1 car barely manages 110db and the rise to 120db is not linear (120db is several times louder than 100dbs).

I recently spent 3.5K on my Pajero Evo and still got pulled on rear wishbone bushes which had no play whatsoever - confirmed to me by two garages afterwards. I had changed the other wishbone and ARB bushes and the rear wishbones didn't look like new so I now have to change a perfectly good set of bushes (which aren't available separate to the wishbone - had to get them made). When I pushed the NCT guy on why he failed them he said they were "slightly worn". I bet they wouldn't have been slightly worn if I'd left 20 quid in the ashtray. :roll:

Its well known that the NCT has to fail a certain percentage of cars - in fact its been consistent at a rate of 50% regardless of year - e.g. when it started most cars tested would have been averaging 10 yrs old and acheiving the same failure rates as the present more modern car fleet (average of 4-5 years old). The failure rate is clearly working to a budget. The fact they have a captive audience means they can do what they want - its not like we can go elsewhere.
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby mcgon1979 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:45 am

right. so 122dB at 3500rpm is total frolicks.
I'm going to go back on Monday about this.
Wrote a strongly worded letter and emailed it to them too. Fcuk it. What have I got to lose at this stage. Zip.
You can be sure they'll be testing the noise as best they can on the retest to make it fail.
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby Kace » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:50 am

You're one of them boy racers - that's the problem ;-)
Let us know how you get on with the Management.
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby mcgon1979 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:22 pm

Has anyone any experience with these bungs? Are they effective dB killers? Might jam one in with a sliver of metal for the retest.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Removable-Db-Ki ... 504wt_1396

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-REMOV ... 875wt_1163
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby optical illusion » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:45 pm

I saw your post up on octane. You shouldn't have to be buying anything to put in your exhaust, as there is nothing wrong with the db level.
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby Myfeckin FTO » Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:56 pm

mcgon1979 wrote:Has anyone any experience with these bungs? Are they effective dB killers? Might jam one in with a sliver of metal for the retest.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Removable-Db-Ki ... 504wt_1396

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-REMOV ... 875wt_1163


I had one in the RSR exhaust I ran on my first Zed - def make a big difference in noise.
You could also consider an exhaust control valve - also bought one of those from Nengun.
It was pretty loud without the bung & ECV (still not more than 100dbs though) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hB8beB4 ... re=related
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby mcgon1979 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:06 pm

Yeah I am reluctant to spend money on stuff like this for a 5 minute test. :( I won't buy anything until I speak to the manager tomorrow.
I need to think about how I am going to approach this situation with him/her.
Firstly I think I will say that my car is not "excessively loud" in my opinion and when used in normal use.
The test was revving on the spot which is probably the car at its loudest. It still is not 100+ db though.
I will then explain that the test was not performed in the designated sound test area, and other cars were beeping horns, revving, ramps raising etc.
I will then say that all sound tests should be taken at a constant. Not a spike of the accelerator from idle to 6000rpm. This is open to opinion though I guess. I will give them the letter I wrote, and I will also ask for another sound test in the proper area. I will ask if a different sound meter can be used and ask when it was calibrated last. (apparently these things need regular calibration just like a speed gun).
I know I cannot really approach it as a complaint or if they are on the back foot I have no chance. So need to just discuss it and see how open the manager is to it. If theres no progress I'll have to buy a bung and hope that it makes enough of a difference to keep them happy.
so annoyed still. raging,
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby Bernard » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:44 pm

Is there anywhere you could get an independent test?
I know you can download apps but a printout from a garage showing you're under the limit could give you an edge.
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby mcgon1979 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:27 pm

As posted on Octane by me.

UPDATE:

I went back to the NCT test centre this evening. I spoke to the manager on the phone first this afternoon and told him my various misgivings about the testing procedure. The way the car was revved. The way it was tested inside beside lots of other noise. The not clearly defined testing procedure. He was actually very nice about it and said I could come in and try it again. He said their "designated sound test area" was actually there in the lane where emissions are tested. In other words, there is no special area I guess. He said they usually rev to between 3500rpm and 3800rpm. He said all he could do was get a supervisor to try it for me.

The guy testing it this time was a South African bloke. He was a sound guy and I asked if he could rev it not so aggressively to try and get a lower reading. He said he'd do it just as per normal. Sure enough he came back out after a couple of revs and showed me the reading 117.2dB. :( ARGH.
Then he went back and tried again for about 10 minutes, various revs, some fast, some slow etc. He came back and said there was no chance of getting it lower and it was actually 118dB when he was trying the second time.
So thats it. Game over.
Chatted to him for 10 minutes after that. He told me about a Ferrari that some tester failed on its standard exhaust. 128dB. They had to fail it once it was sound tested. He said that's the problem with mine now. Once its in the system as a fail refusal for noise, they cannot just say its "ok" without getting a good result on the noise test.
Not sure how their sound meters are calibrated. He agreed my car doesn't sound loud but said there is a spike there (the BARRP noise) when revving it thats actually quite loud when your behind it. This BAARP doesn't happen under load while driving by the way, only when revved from idle in neutral.
I've ordered an insertable baffle anyway, and if necessary I'll stuff it full of something or other. The wool of a steel sheep maybe.
My mates gonna lend me a digital sound meter, so I will be able to do a before and after test to see how much dB difference (% rise) the bung makes. That should give me an idea if it will pass the retest. Any interruption of flow in the zigen exhaust might eliminate this BARRP noise. Hopefully. If my own tests don't show a good reduction using the bung I may have to borrow a standard back box and get it replaced for the test. This is a real pain though, ramp time, gaskets, etc, and would need to be done every year for the test. Hopefully the bung with or without steel sheep wool in it will do enough.
Anyway, the point is, the tester guy this time was sound, as was the manager, but the fact I've been sound tested and failed means theres no going back now. I'll have to get it to pass. I don't have any bones to pick with the guys, its a pity my car was highlighted to be checked in the first instance but thats just life. The guy who flagged it prefers testing quiet family cars I guess. The only bones to pick are with the people who forced implementation of this half baked test, probably because some toff complained to his TD friend that some yob in a crap with a huge can was scaring his horse and waking his wife every night by doing laps in the field behind his stud. :'D
When I was there at the test centre tonight, there was a 2007 Merc AMG SL63. It sounded as loud as mine. It wasn't subject to the sound test though. Fair play to the ould lad driving it, he took off up the road outside the test centre. Sounded audacious. lol.
I'll probably update the thread when I get my own sound meter readings with and without the bung. I'll be very interested to see if my reading without bung is 100+dB.
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby Bernard » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:59 pm

If you're getting a loan of a proper sound meter I'd be interested in comparing it to the apps you can download.
I got "Sound Meter" from smart tools free on the android market and tried it out on my car.
With the phone on the ground beside the exhaust I couldn't get it above 78dB (revving up to 4K).

Now I know it's only and app and it's my car not yours but I really can't imagine that there'd be a 44dB difference....
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby StewyD32 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:42 pm

Im suprised you don't keep saying "WHAT" to replies. lol
You are actually as loud as a rock concert. I looked it up :smt081
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby mcgon1979 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:19 pm

Hey BErnard, I initially thought the same as my car only pushed the phone app to 81 or 82db. Apparently its a limit of the phone because a phone mic is calibrated for voice and just doesn't have the range to do the exhaust. I'll let you know what the proper meter says.
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby mcgon1979 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:37 pm

Tested the car myself with a lend of a sound engineers meter. sure enough.... it was only 101dB when revved to 4k, not 122dB

http://www.octane.ie/forum/showthread.p ... post990575

video link on there too.

not sure of the next move now. NCT sound test is way off. at least 20db off.
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby CJ » Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:36 pm

mcgon1979 wrote:Tested the car myself with a lend of a sound engineers meter.....

not sure of the next move now. NCT sound test is way off


Can you get a signed letter from a qualified sound engineer stating the level reached during an independent professional test?
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby mcgon1979 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:03 pm

yeah, I'll see if I can do that CJ. Should have the baffle tomorrow too, so will see if that makes much difference.
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby Bernard » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:43 pm

Any more news on this McGon?
I just failed my NCT at 110dB, which is rubbish as a lot on here will know, I don't have a very loud car.

There was no point saying anything yet as I need to get tyres too but I'm not happy.
I looked online at the Testing procedure (page 84) and they didn't follow it.
Even taking the test lane as the "sound test area", they just held the mic up to the exhaust and revved the balls out of the car.

If you take a look at the link above you'll see no mention of revving the car at all let alone what they did.
Other sections are very specific as to what RPM the car should be revved to for testing, emissions for example.
The message I take from that is that the car should be sound tested at idle.
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby Dragonheart » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:56 pm

Well surely it shouldn't be tested in an enclosed area for a start? Thats not a realistic representation as the sound will echo around.
Didn't Dan install a butterfly vale or something on his car before? Would that be the way out of this whole NCT scamming rubbish? I fail to see how a loud car is an unsafe car, at least you can hear it coming.
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby Bernard » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:02 pm

I agree with the test but it should be mandatory for every car and done professionally with a realistic limit.

The test is purely there to stop boy racers sticking a huge exhaust on a 1L shítbox, as proven here
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby Dragonheart » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:34 pm

I don't agree with it, I think its rubbish.

If its someone welding a piece of junk to the back of their exhaust fair enough, but its not, my exhaust, your exhaust, and the majority of exhausts on all our cars I would imagine have been professionally fitted by people who know what they're doing, therefore - safely. And if the NCT is a safety thing, then how can they justify that something which has been fitted according to regulations is unsafe. And you remember the issue with them and my sister's car? They fail on crap like this yet miss a bent chassis! Its an outright scam, aimed at bringing money into the coffers, making us who are already paying over the odds for petrol, tax, insurance, making us suffer.

Is it any wonder the country is going the ruin and that people are leaving left right and centre!? We might as well have Kim Jong Un running the country!

I nearly think its worth looking into waiting till cars have reached a classic status before buying one nowadays, least then you avoid this type of rubbish. Saying that if your exhaust was over then I can guarantee that the Z I had would be over, and that was a pure stock car!
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Re: Failure on NOISE 122dB - Advice needed...

Postby Bernard » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:44 pm

The noise test isn't about safety.

NCT wrote: Vehicle exhaust noise

The nuisance caused by excessive noise from vehicle exhausts is regularly the subject of comments and complaints. Examination of a cars exhaust silencer, and its effectiveness at reducing noise is part of the current NCT. It is proposed to implement a noise check of vehicles that the vehicle inspector deems to be excessively noisy. The vehicle will be required to have a level of noise no greater than 99db in order to pass the test.
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