5% Pay Cut

[Marie]

I recon it's the start of things to come!

[Dave]

You're lucky if that's all you get.... There's plenty out there that I personally know that have taken a lot more than that!!!!!

[gary d]

That sucks Marie, but could be worse I work for Montupet as a maintenance spark. We make cylinder heads for peugeot, citroen and ford. A couple of months back we made 40 redundant and the remaining employees had to take a 12.5% pay cut by way of short time working. So now I get a full week off each month. Thank heavens I have a flexi tracker mortgage, with the interest cuts by the B.O.E i'm actually slightly better off each month

[Marie]

Ya I sopose, could be worse, 10% persent was proposed but we fought it out and got it to 5%. But basically we are out by 100k a month to stay floating I can't see 5% pay cut's making those ends meet.
I picked the fixed rate mortgage and we are getting raped! Rang to see how much it would be to switch 25k! We're only fixed for two years though so best off try sail it out. 6.35% though! Ouch!

[TopCat]

That does suck Marie, and I know the hardest thing is to adjust your living standards. You become accustomed to a certain amount of money coming in each week.

Personally, we've let go the best part of half the company, and us lucky enough to be kept on have had to take salary cut of 15-20%. I think with the size of company (<100), we, the staff, feel they have a real very connection to it, and that every individual has a role to play in keeping it afloat. As a result, we're working more hours than ever, because we have to make it work. Worked it out the last day and because I'm fixed (reduced) salary with the hours I'm working I'm actually on just under minimum wage. Makes some of the public sector bickering a bit hard to swallow at times TBH.

[Dave]

Ohhh, lets not get into the public sector "bickering"....... I have a lot of friends that are teachers, in the army and general public sector workings and there was many heated debates about their pension levy and so on!! (I personally think they have had it easy, they all get very very good pensions and to date never had to pay a thing for it, I don't see why this recession should fall souly on the back of the private sector)

[soc]

Ohhh, lets not get into the public sector "bickering"....... I have a lot of friends that are teachers, in the army and general public sector workings and there was many heated debates about their pension levy and so on!! (I personally think they have had it easy, they all get very very good pensions and to date never had to pay a thing for it, I don't see why this recession should fall souly on the back of the private sector)

The funny thing is the government via media and VIs have done an amazing job at creating this debate which works to prevent a common consensus coming to the fore. The auld divide and conquer tactics..... Pity the can't apply the same smarts to the economic problem - "green shots of recovery", pah.... don't believe the hype

[Dave]

Well that is true Shane, they've created a smoke screen to keep the true culprits of our situation in the dark!!

[soc]

Well that is true Shane, they've created a smoke screen to keep the true culprits of our situation in the dark!!

Exactly - I know a few people who although they have the benefit of a guaranteed pension they find this no comfort when they're down monthly income thanks to pension levy, increased income levy and increased prsi. If you're public sector and are struggling to make ends meet a guaranteed pension in 30 years won't mean much unfortunately.

And I suspect that the next budget will bring stinging cuts across the public sector as well as increased taxes for everyone. I believe the well is running dry and we're not too far off some major consequences yet the government are not adressing the issues. Instead they're happy to wait for a US recovery in the hope we get dragged along by the current. Unfortunately, I just cannot see this happening, not least because our crisis is so much deeper than theirs - per capita I believe it cost us a lot more to bail out our banks and we're not finished yet.

[TopCat]

... I know a few people who although they have the benefit of a guaranteed pension they find this no comfort when they're down monthly income thanks to pension levy, increased income levy and increased prsi. If you're public sector and are struggling to make ends meet a guaranteed pension in 30 years won't mean much unfortunately..

[rant]
What annoys me is this argument of "we're getting hit with "pension levy and increased income levy and increased prsi." We're all (well those of us lucky enough to still be working) facing the increased income levy and prsi, so that's not a valid argument for the poor public sector. This pension levy has one big fault from as far as my poorly informed mind can see, and that's that it incorrectly titled. Its a paycut, the exact same as people are seeing up and down the country. No-one wants to see their standard of living drop, but is something the country is going to have to deal with as a whole.
Another point seems to be coming apparent to me and I'd like to get other peoples opinion, as I know mine is a biased view point. I know quite a few younger people in public sector, teachers, etc., who were hit with these cuts, and don't have a problem with it. They accept the country is in trouble, and are willing to take a hit in order to turn things around. Even taking all age groups into consideration, from all I the people I know in the public sector, the majority are actually willing to take the cuts. Are the unions really representing the majority, or is it a few loud-mouth speaking over the rest and resisting just because 6% of their ridiculous salary represents a new car in their driveway each year?
[/rant]

[soc]

Its a paycut, the exact same as people are seeing up and down the country.

When you ignore the fact it's contributing to their pension and look at it on a monthly basis you're absolutely right - ultimately it is money they do not have to spend anymore.

No-one wants to see their standard of living drop, but is something the country is going to have to deal with as a whole.

Very true - the real problem is that the way Ireland Inc's enterntainment bill is being paid seems unfair to most people. There is a perception (right or wrong) that many of those directly responsible for the current situation are being protected as much as possible. FWIW I agree with this perception but I also believe that many of the people complaining are as much to blame for the problem as the developpers, EAs, VIs, gov, etc. The people who borrowed to the gills to fund the celtic tiger lifestyle have to take some responsibility for where they're at right now.

I believe there is a generation who were born into a "silver spoon" environment - most people born in the mid to late 80's would never have really experienced anything other than "boom time" - this created a certain mindset which allowed the credit frenzy. The older generation who already had their property recognised this and took advantage of a generations willingness to indebt themselves.

I was always astonished at how much my friends were prepared to borrow against their income - the multiples were mind boggling. This was fuelled by some wierd desire to keep up with the Jones - have to have an equal or better status car, bigger house, bigget TV, etc - all the cliches but oh so real! Everything was just a competition!

I know quite a few younger people in public sector, teachers, etc., who were hit with these cuts, and don't have a problem with it. They accept the country is in trouble, and are willing to take a hit in order to turn things around. Even taking all age groups into consideration, from all I the people I know in the public sector, the majority are actually willing to take the cuts. Are the unions really representing the majority, or is it a few loud-mouth speaking over the rest and resisting just because 6% of their ridiculous salary represents a new car in their driveway each year?

I suspect you might just know a lot of realistic young people or alternatively young people who can easily afford the cuts by tailoring their lifestyle, e.g. not going out as much, not spending as much on clothes, buy an older car, get rent reduction, lower mortgages due to low interest rates, etc.

There are a lot of families out there who (because of their attitude to credit) were already in dangerous territory but just didn't realise or accept it because that was the norm.... now when incomes falling and taxes rising they're feeling the pinch.

Caveat - there are always exceptions to the generalisations so NOI to anyone - I know there are people being screwed by this through absolutely no fault of their own!

[mcgon1979]

thos epoor public servants....



By Fionnan Sheahan Political Editor

Tuesday May 12 2009

HUNDREDS of thousands of public sector workers will benefit from a €250m pay rise bonanza this year, the Irish Independent has learned.

Despite the dire state of the country's finances, increments paid to civil servants and state agency employees moving up their pay scales are still being made to most of the 340,000 workers in the public service.

The perception of a pay freeze and the pension levy hitting public sector workers stands in stark contrast to the reality of state employees in permanent, pensionable jobs.

They are still seeing their gross salaries increase because the Government is allowing them to receive increased pay purely on the basis of time served.

[Sgt_Major]

My company was bought out, deal to close by July - so none of us can see beyond that.

[soc]

thos epoor public servants....



By Fionnan Sheahan Political Editor

Tuesday May 12 2009

HUNDREDS of thousands of public sector workers will benefit from a €250m pay rise bonanza this year, the Irish Independent has learned.

Despite the dire state of the country's finances, increments paid to civil servants and state agency employees moving up their pay scales are still being made to most of the 340,000 workers in the public service.

The perception of a pay freeze and the pension levy hitting public sector workers stands in stark contrast to the reality of state employees in permanent, pensionable jobs.

They are still seeing their gross salaries increase because the Government is allowing them to receive increased pay purely on the basis of time served.

The article reads poorly for PS workers but if you were offered a pay rise would you refuse it? The problem here is the government - it's the one common root cause across the entire fiasco that is Ireland Inc. today but unfortunately the spin is good enough that we can't all unite with one goal, i.e. change in government and a new approach to dealing with this crisis!

The longer we follow this approach of "taxing our way out of a recession" and ignore the cost base the worse it will get. The concept that we will somehow benefit from a recovery in the US is madness - we're a long way behind the US and if ECB rates start to rise we will be truly f**ked.

[Dragonheart]

Listen, this country is gone to sh1t, no doubt about it and no one in the government or anything has any clue how to pull it out of it. When we were in England the weekend, everything was dirt cheap, we got a round of 5 drinks for 13 pounds approx., we got 3 dinners, 2 glasses of milk, and 2 cokes for 45 pounds in a top class pub/restaurant. Petrol is the same price as here now, it used always be higher. At the show itself, 2 coffes and 4 doughnuts cost 2 pounds, what would that cost at a show here??! But with prices being low, people are spending and putting the money back into flow, unlike here.
Anyone giving out about a 5% pay cut? Lucky you. I got a 5% a while back, and then got made redundant along with 12 others from my office, I now have to emigrate to NZ, while I cant wait to go and always wanted to travel anyway, I'd have preferred to do it at a time when I could choose myself and be able to be sure of jobs before I go, say in a couple of years. The remainder left in the office if non-management got a further 12.5% pay cut, and if management they got a further 20% pay cut.
The social welfare payments are only being processed for the start of february at the moment, I wanted to apply for rent supplement but that takes 16 weeks to come through and I'm only here for another 2 and a half, and the amount of paperwork and crap you have to do to get that is ridiculous! I've been working full time for the last 6 years, paid approx. 27k in tax to the government in that time, and now have to fight like a tiger to get anything when I need some help. And I'm one of the lucky ones!

[soc]

@Dragonheart - sorry to hear about your situation - you're bang on the money - the country is in the crap & the government have no clue what to do - they're not even treading water at the minute - more like slowly sinking. But the UK us equally f**ked - while things are cheaper than here now I believe inflation might become a real danger there now with the "quantitive easing" and they are suffering the same job losses as people in Ireland.

The fact our government are not actively persuing a job creation policy just says to me they want people to emigrate to reduce the social welfare overhead - that is very wrong.

I hope it works out for you in NZ.

[Sebastian]

5% it's not bad Marie .

i know LOADS of people who lost their jobs . that's crazy when u have kids & mortgages. to make it worst there are no more jobs out there thats why hundreds enrole for an interview anywhere .

and about the prices .. they were and still are a joke .
compared to some european prices they are double or triple or even more.

for example my daily roll : i was paying 4.30-4.70 last months of 08 .

in the last 2 monts i'm payng 4.50 - 5.00 for the same roll , same store. bottle of 2L coke 3 eur ? when they only cost cents to make? got petrol the other day with 1.15 eur/L .. that is MAD !

people are loosing jobs , getting paycuts and the prices are still high .

[Marie]

5% it's not bad Marie .

i know LOADS of people who lost their jobs . that's crazy when u have kids & mortgages. to make it worst there are no more jobs out there thats why hundreds enrole for an interview anywhere .

and about the prices .. they were and still are a joke .
compared to some european prices they are double or triple or even more.

for example my daily roll : i was paying 4.30-4.70 last months of 08 .

in the last 2 monts i'm payng 4.50 - 5.00 for the same roll , same store. bottle of 2L coke 3 eur ? when they only cost cents to make? got petrol the other day with 1.15 eur/L .. that is MAD !

people are loosing jobs , getting paycuts and the prices are still high .

5% paycut is HUGE to a family with only one income.

[Bernard]

It's still better than no income.
Both myself and the wife work in Dell and will be gone by the end of the year...

[Dave]

5% is not that much Marie in the current climate, as people above have said, everyone is feeling the pinch..... One income family or not, there are people out there in a far worse position, no job, no income and for those poor unfortunates that were self employed, they're not even entitled to claim the dole, a girl I work with, is out on maternity leave, her husband was self employed and they are now living off her maternity benefit which is 280 a week........

[Dragonheart]

@Dragonheart
The fact our government are not actively persuing a job creation policy just says to me they want people to emigrate to reduce the social welfare overhead - that is very wrong.

I hope it works out for you in NZ.

Thanks Soc.
This does seem to be the situation, they want people to leave so the dole queues will get shorter, there is no iniative shown by them to get something up and running that will allow people to remain and find work. They hide under the covers and hope it will all go away. People are saying but sure Cowan came in at a very tough time, its not his fault, well Obama has come in at a tough time too and at least hes making some type of an effort to get the US back up and running, not like our cauliflower lips leader and his potato head assistant!
Like I said, I'm not the worst off, I have no kids, no mortgage, no ties, I can go without a problem. And as Bernard said, both him and his wife will be out of work shortly, as will a lot of other Dell workers, as it seems that a lot of families had both incomes coming from there. And if you've been working in a specialist company for 10 years or so (not just Dell but say in steel frame housing or something else unusual) its hard to find something along those lines cause its the work you're comfortable with and well educated in. Another common occurance is the scenario Dave pointed out, same happened a girl who was made redundant with me, she was meant to be coming back to work that week and got told the week before, the same week her husband finished up.
The trouble these times is that there is nowhere left to go, not like the 80's, only had to go to England, now there, the US, Oz, middle east, are all suffering in a big way. Plus a lot of us (seeing as most of us are in our late 20's/early 30's) would have been from a generation that had no trouble finding work, a few years ago I applied for an architectural job online, the next day I had calls from about 7 different agencies interested in me. Theres work there but it takes a lot of looking and donkey work to find it, whereas before we had a choice of exactly what we wanted. We just have to evolve with this crisis and hope it gets better.