Speed and Power Differences

[rsg]

Hey Guys, Still can't get enough of the info on this site, there's just so much.

Anyway, I was quite dissapointed to find out that the Manual GPX's are so mauch faster than a GR or GPX tip, reading the one topic.

I got a '95 GR Tip, but I knew I should've tried to organise a GPX or GR Manual. Getting my car serviced on thursday here in South Africa, so after that I will start on modding its, so far I've just got an air filter. I'm paying about 150 pounds if you convert it for the service, I've just clocked 84 500km.

I was thinking of doing branches, exhausts (twin tailpipes on either side, not to much is it?), bypassing the cat completely and then remapping the chip (recommended or waste of time?). Does this sound ok?

How exactly do I go about bypassing the cat and should I do it? Also, we only have crappy Unleaded 93 here, so I will need to get something to boost the octane unless I can run the car on leaded fuel (yes it's still very common here, but they have leaded 100).

As usual any help will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Regards
Rafal

[Myfeckin FTO]

I was thinking of doing branches, exhausts (twin tailpipes on either side, not to much is it?), bypassing the cat completely and then remapping the chip (recommended or waste of time?). Does this sound ok?

How exactly do I go about bypassing the cat and should I do it? Also, we only have crappy Unleaded 93 here, so I will need to get something to boost the octane unless I can run the car on leaded fuel (yes it's still very common here, but they have leaded 100).

Rafal,

Bypassing the cat just means replacing the existing Cat with a straight through pipe (nothing fancy) - though you would need to change the rest of the exhaust from the cat back as well - I would suggest something along the lines of a Mongoose or RSR exhaust single exit (twin or single backbox pipes) rather than branched into 2 tailpipes at either side (this would just slow down exhaust gases and affect performance).

Wouldn't really bother with a chip at this stage as there aren't big enough gains to be made - if you changed the manifold and downpipes then remapping would start to make a lot more sense but with just a filter and exhaust + cat by-pass - I wouldn't bother with chip - you'd probably get as much if not more of a gain from fitting Iridium plugs at next service rather than the standard OE type.

"93 Unleaded" Ouch - I run my FTO on 98 unleaded and put in Octane booster at times as well. The FTO runs best on Unleaded 100-104 Octane which is readily available in Japan - anything less and the ECU adjusts accordingly to prevent pinging - but you do loose out on performance - hence one of the reasons why FTO's in Ireland rarely reach the quoted 197BHP at the flywheel when put on a rolling road - the vast majority of users put unleaded 95 Octane fuel due to price and availability. Don't use leaded fuel though - you'd be asking for trouble.

[Speedyboy]

Don't use leaded fuel though - you'd be asking for trouble.

What damage does the leaded fuel do (Other than the cat)

Cheers

[rsg]

Thanks for the quick replies and help.

So even if I put 2 single pipes split to either side of the vehicle with 1 tailpipe per exhaust, I would also lose perfmance? How much? Does running on 100 octane make a big difference? Where do you get your octane booster from?

What exactly is involved in changing the manifold and down pipes?

Thanks again for any help

Raf

[Myfeckin FTO]

Don't use leaded fuel though - you'd be asking for trouble.

What damage does the leaded fuel do (Other than the cat)

Cheers

Good question! - Wish I knew the answer. Assuming the Cat is gone - then the only other damage I would expect would be longer term and would probably centre around detonation of the fuel (I wouldn't be surprised if the engines pinged with leaded fuel) - Pinging is bad as fuel is heating up the valves rather than powering the engine more effectively so probably doing some long term damage there. The lamda sensor may also be an issue but from what I know this is already connected to the CAT.

Theres only one way to find out - Raf - Can you run your FTO on super leaded for a couple of weeks and come back to us if and when your engine falls out onto the road - Appreciate it

[rsg]

Yeah no problem, I'll try it, then you just send me a GPX engine and manual gearbox, what do ya say?

Though, my friend has a Golf 4 GTI, '99 model and runs fine on leaded and unleaded. So why can't the FTO? He's had no damage to his car from it either, and it's got about 180 000km on the clock.

How much do you pay for octane booster and where do you get it?

Raf

[Speedyboy]

Off topic but Raf quick question

In south africa you drive on the left like us and in north africa they drive on the right like continental europe so where does it change? Do you just switch road sides at the border or what happens??

Strange question but ive always wondered that

You can get millers here http://www.speeding.co.uk/acatalog/millers.html but i wouldnt fancy paying carriage to your area of the world, If your buying quantity you can normally negotiate a decent discount

[rsg]

Good Question, but I had no Idea that it changed in the North of Africa, but I'm assuming what you think could be true that when you cross the border you switch over. Maybe at the Equator?

But half the countries in the north don't even have cars.

Anyway thanks for the link, I'll look around here and see if I can get otherwise I'll just order some, though I've never seen anyone use it here. I wish we had racing fuel on tap!

Thanks again

Raf

[Myfeckin FTO]

Yeah no problem, I'll try it, then you just send me a GPX engine and manual gearbox, what do ya say?

Though, my friend has a Golf 4 GTI, '99 model and runs fine on leaded and unleaded. So why can't the FTO? He's had no damage to his car from it either, and it's got about 180 000km on the clock.

How much do you pay for octane booster and where do you get it?

Raf

Where are the experts when you need them ?? I thought I'd have got shot down long ago with my half hearted attempt at an answer to running unleaded - expected a reply something along the lines of - Ya canna putt leaded through the sub-atomic atomiser on an FTO - you'll blow the bloody lot (Captain)!!

I have had cars in the past that ran both fuel types as well - and I would have imagined they had CAT's as well - so you've opened a big fat can of worms here Raf.

What I do know though is that if you have a CAT it will not take too long before the lead will basically render the CAT useless due to the build up of lead in the CAT.

I buy my Octane booster in a local Motor Accessory store - costs around 10Euro a tin and this does for about 60litres of fuel bring it from 98 to over 100Octane - I only do this occasionally because the price of the Octane booster does not give the car enough additional performance or extra economy for it to make sense on a day to day basis. One thing to note though is that your ECU will take about 60KM to adjust to the higher rating of fuel so if you're doing 1/4 miles or going on a rolling road - you may want to run it on the higher rate of fuel for a bit.

[rsg]

Now I understand, Thanks for the help! Come to think of it, he had to take out his cat because there were some problems, so you must be right.

One more question, is racing fuel leaded or uneladed, or can you get both? Thats the closest I'm going to get to the right octane. What have you done to your car and what do you push power wise?

raf

[Myfeckin FTO]

One more question, is racing fuel leaded or uneladed, or can you get both? Thats the closest I'm going to get to the right octane. What have you done to your car and what do you push power wise?

raf

Raf - No idea re Racing fuel - not exactly available at your local forecourt - wouldn't make much sense on a day to day basis in any case. Better to find a good quality high octane readily available fuel - and if that happens to be 93 unleaded then thats what you'll have to run with - then when you do a rolling road day or track day then throw a can of Octane booster in.

I haven't done much to my present FTO - as I only have it about 5 months. Power wise I have fitted an ITG Filter and an RSR Cat-back exhaust (Decat on the way) and I have replaced the standard plugs with Denso Iridiums. I have previously changed Manifolds and downpipes on a previous car (not FTO) and found it to make quite a difference - it really depends on the car - there are some far fancier (& more expensive mods) but these are not worth it for the small amount of power gained.

Many here would argue that its not even worth changing the filter and exhaust on an FTO due to questionable power gains - personally ITG Filter + Decat 2.5" bore Stainless Steel exhaust single exit + Denso' plugs does it for me. Would also like manifold & downpipes with fuel pressure regulator at the right price. I have not got this FTO on a rolling road yet so don't have a clue what power its putting out - what I can tell you is that its a hell of a lot faster than my previous Tip GR particularly at the top end in the mivec zone.

[rsg]

Great stuff man. What exactly do you do with your manifold and downpipes? I think we refer to those parts slightly differently here, like down pipes would be branches, or would they?

[soc]

Great stuff man. What exactly do you do with your manifold and downpipes? I think we refer to those parts slightly differently here, like down pipes would be branches, or would they?

Sounds like you need a turbo kit

You should have a look at rpw.com.au - there's a lot of tuning stuff on there for the FTO.

But that said, unless you decide to go with a turbo the power gains you're gonna get will be pretty small. Mistsubishi did such a great job with the FTO V6 that it's very hard to get extra power. Even fitting the RPW manifolds and downpipes probably won't give you much more than 10-15bhp extra (accroding to many of the uk owners). AFAIK one of the other irish owners (Kace) even saw some torque losses when he fitted his decat pipe.

[Dave]

ah now it's time for a www.splitrimsracing.com plug
have a look at the RPW stuff and if there's anything on there that you're interested in let us know, we offer all FTO Ireland (& South Africa) members a club discount.

[Myfeckin FTO]

Great stuff man. What exactly do you do with your manifold and downpipes? I think we refer to those parts slightly differently here, like down pipes would be branches, or would they?

I would think that branches more likely refers to the manifold itself rather than the downpipes. Basically a full system would start at the manifold - then go through the downpipes to the Cat(or cat bypass pipe) - then into the centre section and finally out through the backbox. A typical system also has a number of resonators and a muffler - these are more free flowing and less restrictive on a performance exhaust system - the less bends in the exhaust the better as well - basically a performance exhaust is just designed to take the hot gases from the engine (pushed out by the pistons)and expel them as quickly as possible without having to queue up at the CAT, bends in the piping,resonators,muffler etc. There are a number of other factors as well such as the bore of your exhaust (wouldn't go over 2.5inches on an FTO) - buts that another story.

But as the lads have said above - if you really want significantly more power on a GR then you have to look at a turbo kit.

[soc]

But as the lads have said above - if you really want significantly more power on a GR then you have to look at a turbo kit.

Or swop out your tip box for a manual box and then get a lightened and balanced flywheel for begger response and pick up.

[rsg]

thats a really big job, but when I do evetually break the box, I will consider it. I'm looking into the turbo kit, just sent them an email to find out how much it is.

How much would you pay for a manual gear box?

[Myfeckin FTO]

thats a really big job, but when I do evetually break the box, I will consider it. I'm looking into the turbo kit, just sent them an email to find out how much it is.

How much would you pay for a manual gear box?

The manual gearbox conversion only starts to make sense if your hand is forced when the Tip box gives up the ghost. Otherwise you are better off simply selling the Tip and buying a manual GR or GPX.

BTW - I had a very happy 18months with my Tip GR - no matter what you will do to a car it will never be enough - enjoy your GR Tip - put some sensible and not too expensive mods on - and keep an eye out for a manual GPX

[rsg]

Thanks.

When i find a way to bring it into South Africa (it's registered in Botswana because they don't allow 2nd hand imports here) I'm going to take out the kick plates and sell it. I bought it for R54 000 (About 4500 pounds) with importing and can sell it for about triple. Then I'll get myself a decent Manual GPX and another and then sell the one as well. They are so rare here that I get huge amounts of attention.

Raf

[CJ]

Good question! - Wish I knew the answer. Assuming the Cat is gone - then the only other damage I would expect would be longer term and would probably centre around detonation of the fuel (I wouldn't be surprised if the engines pinged with leaded fuel) - Pinging is bad as fuel is heating up the valves rather than powering the engine more effectively so probably doing some long term damage there. The lamda sensor may also be an issue but from what I know this is already connected to the CAT.

I'm no expert on the issue but you're right on a few points, the cat material will be 'poisoned' after 2 or 3 fills of leaded petrol, the lead sticks to the metal (usually platinum) and renders its useless pretty quickly. Correct on the lambda sensor front as well, not too sure about detonation\pinking though - leaded fuel generally has a higher octane rating than UL (typically 98 - 102). AFAIK, modern valve seals may react badly to the lead in leaded petrol.

CJ