are you a dreamer or realistic???

[miss-enzo]

Was talkin to a few of the lads over the last few days as i was updating my insurance since lowering the car..... and this topic cropped up about air filter and the likes adding bhp, since insurance companies charge more if ur car has one!!

Now i consider myself a realistic person because i know my ITG hasnt given me any more horsies under the hood..... it might not have lost me any like most air filters/inductions kits do but i would highly doubt if it added anything

Thing is one of the lads reckons his induction kit has given him around 10bhp...... when he said this i nearly pi$$ed myself laughin!!!


Do anybody here think (or are they willing to admit they think) an air filter/ induction kit has added power to their car??? any proof to back this up ifyou say think it does???

[Lee]

As you know Lou(living with me and all) i don't shout on about power figures....

My civic is heavily modified..and i'd say i'd be lucky to get 165-170HP out of her.
i haven't quoted a figure.......as i don't belive it should be quoted till you have proof....

My Rx7 on the other hand....IS 265bhp and 240ft/lbs at .5bar boost:D

bring on the power fc and remap baby!:D

But i agree....induction kits on their own don't add horses....

[kevinod]

Induction on it's own was found to have little or sometimes negative effects on tests done before by the guys on Ftooc iirc... makes a nice sound though!

As a matter of interest, did the insurance company charge you much extra for the mods?

[miss-enzo]

Induction on it's own was found to have little or sometimes negative effects on tests done before by the guys on Ftooc iirc... makes a nice sound though!

As a matter of interest, did the insurance company charge you much extra for the mods?

i added suspension and brakes (forgot i hadnt added them already!) and it was only €78 which aint bad! gonna put the HIDs and carbon boot on when i get them cause they dont add any cost!

[Kace]

i added suspension and brakes (forgot i hadnt added them already!) and it was only €78 which aint bad! gonna put the HIDs and carbon boot on when i get them cause they dont add any cost!

So you uprate the suspension and brakes on a car to improve its performance and they smack on an extra €78 (which is probably 10% of your premium)!! . These are two mods that I wouldn't even have bothered declaring as they are relatively untraceable from a stock setup (except to an expert).

A carbon bonnet ,induction kit, HIDs are more obvious 'bolt ons' and are easier to spot.

Probably the topic for a separate thread but I wonder how many of the FTO-Ireland member mods are actually declared for insurance purposes. Declarations would be on the low side I would imagine.

[miss-enzo]

I dunno any eejit would know my brakes arent standard!!!! and sure feck it for 78yoyo i get a bit of peace of mind that if nethin did happen i wouldnt be caught out for not declaring!!
ill start a poll regarding delaring mods


Back to topic

[TopCat]

I don't know what you're on about, I've an induction kit and its added at least as much power as the super light weight furry dice!
Agreed though, I'm very skeptical about people quoting power gains. Its funny how you do anything to your car, and it ALWAYS feels better/sharper/ more powerful after, even when you know it couldn't really have effected the performance.
I doubt there are many people out there who could genuinely notice the difference between 190 and 195/200BHP.
I spent an afternoon tidying the front grill, changing a bulb and a few other similar small jobs, and it really felt like the car drove better after. Wishful thinking is a wonderful thing!

[Sebastian]

a dino sheet always proves the theory

[steelroe]

Induction kits do work if fitted correctly. Now the power gains quoted by some people are unrealistic, but the basic fact is if you fit a good quality filter, less restrictive intake, and keep the air as cool as possible (less dense) your Aif flow mater or MAP sensor measures the increase and the ECU increases the fuel in proportion.

More Air/Fuel means more Power.
The key is cool non restrictive air flow.


As for declaring mods I doubt any insurance assesor would know if the brakes and suspension are standard or not.
We are a long way behing other countries when it comes to this sort of thing. In UK the police have specially trained officers that can spot non standard items on a car.

[colm_mcm]

DO you think that the type of person who fits an induction kit is more likely to have an accident?

[TopCat]

keep the air as cool as possible (less dense)

I'm no expert, but is the cold air not more dense?

[Muad_dib77]

I'd like to think of myself as being a realist..

Forinstance - a car from 95 that started out with 200ish bhp isn't gonna have 200ish bhp today - unless at some stage it's had a bunch of work done to it, or it's had a rather good maintenance schedule..

An induction kit on it's own wont make much if any difference, same with downpipes, decat, cat-back exhaust, lightened flywheel - or any of the mods we normally undertake..

Combine the lot though and on our NA 2l units we might just be lucky and gain a few bhp, but we're likely to still be talking single figures.

Mind you - If you willing to go completely bonkers from a finacial point of view there are still things you can do to wrong more power from your unit..but it takes upgrading the internals, adding turbo, supercharger, nos or rockets which ever you prefer.

I personally think the most sensible way is a combination of mods that will still keep the car useable as a daily runner combined with a bit of sensible weightloss.

Lee mentioned his rx - which is a completely different unit altogether, there's much more scope for adding horses on forced induction systems.

[Lee]

Yeah it's a whole different plat form really...

with my power FC which i'm getting fitted to the RX in a couple of months(she's gonna be off the road till then) i'll be looking at over the 300hp mark, and she'll be running a lot smoother, and a more "normal" ammount of fuel!

bye bye octane booster:D

[d_dan]

YES.

i believe my intake system has added BHP
and incresed torque, but i lookl at the power band.

a top notch bmc filter and an air ram could give ya 15 or so if properly set up.

but back on topic yes mine has added power and is proven onn the dyno

[colm_mcm]

a top notch bmc filter and an air ram could give ya 15 or so if properly set up.

has this ever actually been done?

I mean I could be a chess champion, if I learnt how to play chess better than everyone else in the world.

[miss-enzo]

^^^^ HAHA! Nice viewpoint you have there colm!!

[Myfeckin FTO]

......
a top notch bmc filter and an air ram could give ya 15 or so if properly set up........

Induction alone on the FTO (regardless of type) will not add an additional 15bhp to the FTO's 2L NA mivec.

It won't on a 3.5l V6 Zed engine - and I've a CF CAI induction with a heat shielded JWT popcharger and also a larger and freer flowing Kinetix Plenum and theres no way I'm seeing an additional 10bhp nevermind 15bhp and thats on an engine thats not as highly tuned as the FTO's to begin with (should be better scope for improving NA bhp figures)

[d_dan]

banzai did a feature on the uk ftooc dyno day and there was one of the lads gettung 10-15 from his air ram

[colm_mcm]

the air ram was his only mod, or was it combined with other mods?

did they test his car with and without the air ram?

[Bernard]

banzai did a feature on the uk ftooc dyno day and there was one of the lads gettung 10-15 from his air ram

Here's the results:


Which one has the extra BHP?

[TopCat]

Here's the results:


Which one has the extra BHP?

Even if there is a difference in 2 cars with different setups, surely this isn't a reliable result as any 2 cars will probably vary either way? Would it not have to be the same car with a before and after test to really judge any improvement?

[Muad_dib77]

those results could just as easily be a reflection on how well the engines have been looked after over the years..

[miss-enzo]

those results could just as easily be a reflection on how well the engines have been looked after over the years..

agreed! sure the figure i got (197.1bhp) is better than most of them and mine only has an itg air filter!

[RussMan]

I get the feeling of an extra 50 bhp in engine note alone

[mcgon1979]

those results could just as easily be a reflection on how well the engines have been looked after over the years..

agreed, they seem like very poor results. 185bhp on a GPvR with a full system?!!? Im sure that guy was not too happy. I would have thought most looked after mivec engines would be up in the 190 - 197 figure... plenty in the 80s there...