Recommend a coupe?

[Mustang]

Recommend a coupe?
I’m considering replacing the FTO –tough act to follow.I know. After three years with the current car and several years of FTO’s I’m thinking of a change. Basically I’m looking for something the same but different. The criteria for the replacement would be as follows:
Coupe (or maybe a convertible)
Be reasonably quick –same ball park as the FTO
Sub €14k
Petrol ideally not over 2L engine size (just for tax reasons really, insurance would not be an issue)
Ideally less than seven years old

I’ve been considering the following:

First and foremost is the RX8 (230bhp) –similar curvy styling to the FTO, but much more modern, jap reliability, rotary engine with rwd – Fulfilling the same but different criteria!

Honda S2000, Nice car but I’ve always felt they were way over priced, and while they have come down in recent times I still fail to see the value. (You’d get a 3 or four year younger RX8 for similar money).

Honda integra DC5. More modern version of the FTO without the styling –useful hatch back though.

Alfa GTV. Would have to be cheap –as it’s getting a bit long in the tooth now.

Alfa GT. Nice looking coupe/ hatch and a known quantity (to me). And I was drawn to one the other day mainly by the competitive pricing (it was sold already though). But I’ve done the fwd alfa thing to death. Have been driving them for almost 10 years now. I’m surrounded by them –both my parents and the GF drive them. So it wouldn’t really fulfil the something different criteria.

Nissan 200SX –not pretty, and getting on a bit, but still a capable car.
Nissan Silvia –much like the S2k I’ve always felt that these were way over priced –but they have come down. Not a big fan of the looks, or the ricer/drifter/chav image but rwd with tuneable turbo power does make a compelling case.

The slightly more left field (as far as I’m concerned) options.

Toyota celica –I just don’t think I could do it. It would be like changing jobs to a rival firm for less pay, worse conditions and a longer commute!

350z –some relatively cheap examples around now but don’t think I could cope with the tax or the tiny boot.

BMW 3 series coupe. Nice looking but everywhere. Really need a large (2.5L or 3L) in these for any kind of performance, which in tern would be impossible to resell.

BMW Z4, I do actually like the styling, but I just don’t think I could do it. I am not one of those BMW /golf club/ keeping up with the Jones type people and I think I would feel like a bit of a knob. 6 cylinders with rwd is a nice combination though.

Porsche Boxster. Similar to the Z4. Excellent handling, build quality/snob value. (No 911 wannabe comments please. That little piece of wisdom from Clarkson is complete nonsense. It’s like saying you only drive an FTO because you can’t afford a GTO –simply not true –the GTO is crap and the 911 is inherently flawed.)

Am I missing anything? Anyone care to extol the virtues or otherwise of these cars, suggest alternatives, etc.

[colm_mcm]

Audi TT.

Even a 180bhp Quattro could keep up with an FTO GPX, a 225 would be ideal though.
1.8 so tax is ok.
€14k gets you a very fresh one.


A GTV is ancient, based on the Fiat Tipo platform. can't see why you'd change out of the FTO for one. Even the Fiat Coupe betters it.

I can't see you driving a Celica or a 200SX either.

[Mustang]

Audi TT.

Even a 180bhp Quattro could keep up with an FTO GPX, a 225 would be ideal though.
1.8 so tax is ok.
€14k gets you a very fresh one.

Good suggestion -file under left field. Probably the front runner as far as the German cars are concerned though. The interiors are very nice also.
Have never owned a German car -so would be a bit of a departure for me.

A GTV is ancient, based on the Fiat Tipo platform. can't see why you'd change out of the FTO for one. Even the Fiat Coupe betters it.

Agreed. but it was actually a GTV that started this off in the first instance. Last month I was planning to keep the FTO long enough to be putting it in my will. Then I picked up a copy of the autotrader just to browse, and come upon a fixer upper '04 GTV going cheap or so I thought. Anyway that planted the seed, and I've been browsing ever since.

I can't see you driving a Celica or a 200SX either.

I'm inclined to agree. The celica doesn't really float my boat, I'd rather have a less powerful alfa GT. The 200sx is similar vintage to FTO, I think it has basically passed me by at this stage. You are just reinforcing what I already knew -which is reassuring.
Keep em coming!

[Bernard]

From your list I'd go for the S2000, Toyota reliability, loads of poke and RWD.
The 350Z would be a strong contender too but IMO you'd want a bigger budget to get the right one.

[adrian]

I drive an RX8 231 at the moment, amazing car but you'll not get more then 18 MPG so just beware! I had an S2000 also, my favourite ever car. Twice the fuel economy of the RX8, more power (although the RX 8 feels every bit as quick). If you fail to see what the fuss about the S2000 is you've not driven one yet!

Basically, if you need back seats the RX8 is amazing value for money - power and looks in equal mesure. If you don;t need back seats.... S2000 all the way.

[colm_mcm]

I'll probably get a roasting for this, but....

Chrysler Crossfire, 3.2 V6. 0-60 in 6.5. Built by Karmann in Germany.

2004 €9950


http://www.carzone.ie/search/Chrysler/C ... annel=CARS

2005 €14950


http://www.carzone.ie/search/Chrysler/C ... annel=CARS

Think outside the box like.

[adrian]

They are actually quite funky... good money too!

[gfalls]

Better known as the "Chrysler Crossdresser"...

[optical illusion]

I'd go S2K (if you wait long enough there are bargains to be had) then Boxster S.

There is a cracking GTV6 for sale on octane, I was behind this car at the Phoenix Park and it sounds phenomenal. In fact I can't believe it hasn't sold yet. If reliability wasn't an issue I wouldn't turn my nose up at a turbo fiat coupe either.

Can't interest you in life in a lotus no?

[Myfeckin FTO]

Would have to be 350Z for me - especially if you don't have a requirement for rear seats.
Theres plenty of good examples avail for around 16K. Better fuel econony then the RX8 and quicker too.
Can't beat that extra bit of torque.

S2000 a nice alternative as well but what you'd gain on tax (over the Zed) you'd loose on insurance (conv insurance).

Really wouldn't consider either the TT or Crossfire for a number of diferent reasons that would take too long to mention here. DC5 and Celica ? - nice cars but you'd be probably as well off keeping the FTO.

[Dragonheart]

Grace owns a DC5 and I must say they are quick, especially the pick up when you hit v-tec is impressive, though its at a high rev than the fto when the fto hits mivec so you dont stay in v-tec as long as we do in mivec. They have loads of space in the back and can easily take rear seat passengers, and tons of boot space. One thing I'm not a fan of is the dials, bit too fisher price looking, but apart from that everything else is spot on, have 220 bhp stock which is nice.

[fatboyfat7]

From your list I'd go for the S2000, Toyota reliability, loads of poke and....

Surprised at you Bernard, not often you make a slip up!!!

[CJ]

Mustang, first and foremost - do you need rear seats? Get this one out of the way first.

I was looking @ GTVs back in '98 before I got my first FTO, I never looked at one again after that!

IMO, I'd be considering:

S2k: pros - reasonably quick, good handler, RWD, great engine. cons - no rear seats, need to drive it in VTEC zone for real performance, plenty of room in glovebox for brushes and combs (NOI!)
RX-8 (231): pros - reasonably quick, good handler, RWD, nice interior, plenty of room in the back, great rotary sound @ 9k rpm. cons - drinks petrol, lacks torque low down, needs to be driven up the rev range.
350Z - great looks and interior, RWD, quick, its a Nissan. cons - big road tax.

CJ

[Dave]

Got to be a 350Z for me, yes they will cost you a little more on road tax, but insurance is cheaper than most but the maintenance is very cheap, 2-300 euro per service which is 9Kmiles or once a year, and you can get decent economy too, I had often seen around 30mpg in the old standard Zed, not to mention there is a really good UK site for any info you might need!!

But you will need a little more than 14K to get a good one

[Mustang]

Thanks to all contributers.
@Colm..keep the left field options coming. I like the wheels on the crossfire and that's about it, just never liked that car. It would be financial suicide to buy one.

@ Optical illusion. I love the idea of having an elise. But I'm not sure the reality would quite match. I just would not buy one with the rover engine -all I ever seem to hear about these cars is head gasket failure. And having popped the HG on a previous car with a K series engine I would not like to repeat the experience. A toyota engined one would be too expensive.
On a similarly left field note the Vauxhall VX220/ speedster popped into my head last night and by coincidence was followed by a top gear re run on Dave featuring the same car. 01-02 cars can be had within budget. I'm not sure if I'd actaully do it though. (2nd car would be a necessity)

S2000 a nice alternative as well but what you'd gain on tax (over the Zed) you'd loose on insurance (conv insurance).

That is a very simplistic approach, which simply is not true. having gotten insurance quotes, the price for cover is about the same on both cars. Leaving a ~€800 price differential on the annual motor tax.

I do not need rear seats, they would be nice to have but not essentail and would not be a deal breaker. I don't think the Zed is a runner, for a number of reasons
-budget although I have seen a few close to budget -as to what condition they are in is another thing
-Tax, just too much. If I were going to pay that much road tax I'd want a V8.
-Laughably small boot for a car of it's size. I always maintained the Zed would make an ideal GT car if only there was somewhere to store your luggage!, I also do not like the fact that there is little or no fire wall between the boot and passanger compartment, altough that is easily overcome.

S2000. Are they really that special? I can take or leave the convertible thing. On paper it has similar performance to the RX8. And as I've said, for similar money you'd an RX8 three years younger, not only that but realistically a generation younger than the S2000 i.e. much more modern. Is The S2k really that good?
RX8 fuel consumtion is probably comparable to the FTO (anyone care to correct me on that?). I dont do big mileage so that would not be a huge concern, and the commute to work (the bulk of my mileage) is a straight motorway run all the way.

[soc]

I've always had a soft spot for the S2k - when Adrian got his I was very jealous. Lovely sounding engine and looks with rwd fun.

I can really appreciate the RX8 package but the styling never really grew on me and I couldn't live with the lack of low down torque (I did actually drive one ) plus the high fuel consumption and oil usage.

350Z - I love them - they look great, sound great and go great. Only reason I never went that path is because I'm royally whipped The only downside for me would be the interior.

I think CJ has a good point - you should decided what you want - what kind of driving experience, how much power, what kind of handling, economy, do you want any practicality? etc

I'd definitely drive a TT too but I suspect you'd have to do some bits to improve the handling after the FTO - certainly modified wishbone bushse to improve the steering (sharper response and more feel). As an overall coupe package it really is hard to beat - sweet looks, sweet interior, 4wd traction, good bhp from a 1.8t and easily tuneable And you'd pick up a really good example for 14k, as an example - in my mind mine is mint and I'd put it up for 10k if I was doing a private sale.

[Myfeckin FTO]

..........RX8 fuel consumtion is probably comparable to the FTO (anyone care to correct me on that?). I dont do big mileage so that would not be a huge concern, and the commute to work (the bulk of my mileage) is a straight motorway run all the way.

RX8 fuel consumption would be considerably worse than the Zed nevermind the FTO.
Boot space isn't that bad in the Zed - its just that the strut brace gets in the way - can't imagine fitting any more in the boot of an S2000.

[soc]

Don't rule out the boxster either - brilliant car to drive, especially the 3.2S

[Mustang]

..........RX8 fuel consumtion is probably comparable to the FTO (anyone care to correct me on that?). I dont do big mileage so that would not be a huge concern, and the commute to work (the bulk of my mileage) is a straight motorway run all the way.

RX8 fuel consumption would be considerably worse than the Zed nevermind the FTO.
Boot space isn't that bad in the Zed - its just that the strut brace gets in the way - can't imagine fitting any more in the boot of an S2000.

Agreed on the Zed verses RX8 fuel consumtion. but with ~€900 less motor tax to pay per annum and ~€200 less on insurance (in my case) €1100 buys a lot of fuel -and I don't do big mileage.
CJ/ Adrian, care to make a comparison on fuel consumption between FTO and RX8? I've never been bored enough to calculate the mpg on the FTO, but I would think early to mid 20's is what's achieavable in the real world.

[CJ]

CJ/ Adrian, care to make a comparison on fuel consumption between FTO and RX8? I've never been bored enough to calculate the mpg on the FTO, but I would think early to mid 20's is what's achieavable in the real world.

I'm currently getting about 15MPG on average in the RX-8, I mostly drive urban and in traffic. Mixed driving will see you returning about 18, 20 is acheivable on motorway runs. Oil consumption isn't a big issue as far as I'm concerned, I use about a litre per 3k kms.

IIRC, I used to get average about 19Mpg in the GPX Tip (urban), it seems better in the GX (manual), about 23mpg.

CJ

[Mustang]

CJ/ Adrian, care to make a comparison on fuel consumption between FTO and RX8? I've never been bored enough to calculate the mpg on the FTO, but I would think early to mid 20's is what's achieavable in the real world.

I'm currently getting about 15MPG on average in the RX-8, I mostly drive urban and in traffic. Mixed driving will see you returning about 18, 20 is acheivable on motorway runs. Oil consumption isn't a big issue as far as I'm concerned, I use about a litre per 3k kms.

IIRC, I used to get average about 19Mpg in the GPX Tip (urban), it seems better in the GX (manual), about 23mpg.

CJ

That's about what I expected, although 15mpg is a little scary. That said I do almost no urban driving. The whole oil consumption issue was blown out of all proportion by urban legend. Having run a few alfas I'd say that that oil consumption was almost negligable in comparison

[Bernard]

From your list I'd go for the S2000, Toyota reliability, loads of poke and....

Surprised at you Bernard, not often you make a slip up!!!

Jeez, what was I thinking Doh!

I've never been bored enough to calculate the mpg on the FTO, but I would think early to mid 20's is what's achieavable in the real world.

I have and I've an excel sheet to prove it
I always get at least high 20s, often low 30s.

One question though, are you just playing with ideas or is a change definitely on the cards.
The reason I ask is given the FTO you have is such a good example (and in a rare colour), if you sell it on you might have trouble getting such a nice one again...

[Mustang]

One question though, are you just playing with ideas or is a change definitely on the cards.

Good question. Nothing definite. Like I said above I was planning to keep the FTO indefinitely (and taxed it for a year last time - I think there's 9 months tax left on it.. .). But like I also said above I bought the autotrader, just to occupy some time over the weekend - and that got me thinking about a change.
I've had FTO's on and off for 5 years now. There are other experiences to be had..... I must change my mind again next week.

The reason I ask is given the FTO you have is such a good example (and in a rare colour), if you sell it on you might have trouble getting such a nice one again...

Good point, but if I do decide to sell, it would be to try something different and move on so to speak -I would not intend buying another one. But I've always wanted to use the line " Rare manual mivec" in an add. Now I could and it would actually be true -if only by virtue of it's colour

[colm_mcm]

If it was me, I'd keep the FTO and buy something different and cheap, like an MX5 or an Audi Coupe, Fiat Coupe Turbo, or an old Skyline, get your bit of something different, then sell it and try something else.

[adrian]

I'm currently getting about 15MPG on average in the RX-8, I mostly drive urban and in traffic. Mixed driving will see you returning about 18, 20 is acheivable on motorway runs. Oil consumption isn't a big issue as far as I'm concerned, I use about a litre per 3k kms.

IIRC, I used to get average about 19Mpg in the GPX Tip (urban), it seems better in the GX (manual), about 23mpg.