Full cat back system for my mirage

[Ronanc]

Hey all,

Anyone know where I could get a full cat back system for my mirage mivec? i want something that will look stock..and sound quiet with nice bhp gains

Ronan
Irishmoc.org

[Myfeckin FTO]

Ronan

Powerflow Exhausts in Mullingar will make you up whatever you want - details here - http://www.fto-ireland.com/parts.html

[Ronanc]

thanks..do you think i will gain bhp with one of these systems?

[Myfeckin FTO]

thanks..do you think i will gain bhp with one of these systems?

You should gain a few bhp if you get a de-cat as well - the HKS you've already fitted should have freed up the breathing on the induction side so you should get a nice increase in the flow of exhaust gas.
Try and keep it simple - as few as possible reasonance chambers, silencers, bends in exhaust as possible - keep to a similar sized or slightly larger bore and a less restrictive backbox.

Don't go with a twin exit - doesn't suit the Cyborg anyway - but will also slow the exit of the exhaust gases and may cost you power. A nice simple Jap style exit would be my preference.

You may only gain 5-10 bhp but you'll think you've gained about 50 when you put the foot down.

Are you getting ready for a drag against a GPX manual or something??

[Mustang]

Ronan,
First up, I don't claim to know anything about the ctborg just offering an opinion. Given that the standard car produces ~165 bhp from a 1.6L engine, it's already beyond the magic 100bhp per litre, and I'd imagine it is fairly highly strung. On that basis a 5 to 10 bhp gain from changing the exhaust I think is a bit optimistic!
A custom exhaust sounds like an expensive option.
Remus do a back box for the "colt 1.6" and also do full systems.
Mongoose also claim to do a very broad range for Jap application, don't see a listing for the cyborg though. Both are stocked by demon tweeks, I'd give them a call to see whats available ..00441978 664466

Mustang

[Myfeckin FTO]

Ronan,
.........Given that the standard car produces ~165 bhp from a 1.6L engine, it's already beyond the magic 100bhp per litre, and I'd imagine it is fairly highly strung. On that basis a 5 to 10 bhp gain from changing the exhaust I think is a bit optimistic!...

Well - you could say the same about the FTO as well - but taking off the Cat and fitting a freer flowing performance exhaust def adds about 5 -10bhp but even putting that aside I'd say to do it for the sound alone.
An aftermarket backbox will just make the car sound loud - a performance decat back system will add a lot more character to the sound and it won't cost a fortune - probably something in the region of 500-600Euros. It would then allow you to go further in the future by making a performance manifold and downpipes a realistic addition.
It will also help your existing HKS induction to realise more gains - its not the individual performance parts that will add to BHP gains - its the sum of the parts!

Maybe start by looking to see if anyone is selling a suitable secondhand system - there are heaps of colt and asti mivecs for sale (buy&sell etc) with performance systems - maybe you could do an exhaust swop for your standard system plus a bit of cash??

I put a second-hand RSR exhaust and added a de-cat for under €300 inc fitting and its by far my favorite mod despite being one of the cheapest I have done.

[Dave]

i seriously doubt you'd realise any gains at all from the exhaust, as mustang said it's a highly tuned already.
Prime example would be comparing your car MyFeckin, you've done a few mods and got what? 193 or so on the rollers, Kace last year with completely standard everything got 197.

[Mustang]

MfFTO wrote

An aftermarket backbox will just make the car sound loud

Of course. All I was saying is that Remus definitely do a back box for the colt 1.6, while they do offer full systems, it's not clear if they do a full system for the colt/ cyborg, obviously you would need a full system to realise any power gains.

[Myfeckin FTO]

i seriously doubt you'd realise any gains at all from the exhaust, as mustang said it's a highly tuned already.
Prime example would be comparing your car MyFeckin, you've done a few mods and got what? 193 or so on the rollers, Kace last year with completely standard everything got 197.

Its hard to compare cars outputs without putting them on the rollers at the same time in the same conditions. I also noticed that my maximum power readout stopped at 121.5 mph in 4th when the speed limiter came in rather abruptly ( I'm pretty sure that Westward mistook this as my redline despite having another 800RPM to go) so I'm pretty sure I've got a few more horses than this.

I'm sure you'll find its also rare that any FTO kicks out 197bhp as standard - this has been well documented on the UK forum - all I'm saying is I believe that I got a decent level of performance increase from adding small mods like the Decat RSR exhaust, ITG and Iridium plugs etc. A decat alone should add bhp - Cats are well known for their performance zapping qualities.

[Dave]

CJ has the read out of Kace's, we compared Daz's which had a filter on itt, and Kace's with none and standard was better

[Myfeckin FTO]

CJ has the read out of Kace's, we compared Daz's which had a filter on itt, and Kace's with none and standard was better

I'm not doubting these figures - a lot will depend on the condition of the car and the fuel used - Kace's car is the exception rather than the rule - I have never heard of a standard FTO putting out 197bhp on a rolling road.
I'd like to see how Kaces car would fare with some mods - I'm sure you'd see a further improvement.

I changed my filter to the standard one at the rolling road and there was just 1bhp in favour of the ITG (but the ITG was dirty at the time) - but I'd imagine in a road going situation that the ITG would be getting more cold air than standing still in a garage (blower accepted). We could see the very obvious benefits in changing from the ITG to the HKS on the PajEvo (+8bhp) so it doesn't make any sense to say there are no gains to be had.

If you rolling roaded the same FTO GPX Manual as standard and then with mods such as Manifold + downpipes, DeCat + Stainless Steel performance exhaust, HKS + Cold Air Induction , Fuel pressure regulator and a piggyback ECU such as a Dastek I am fairly sure you would see some nice gains - every little bit helps but its when it all comes together that you get the most from the mods.

Dave - are you really saying there is nothing to be had from these mods???

[Dave]

no, i'm not saying that there is nothing to be gained from these mods, what i am saying is that i agree with Mustang that the 1.6 mivec is tuned extremely well and an exhaust will probably not release any gains. granted if downpipes, de-cat, fse fuel regulator and piggy back ecu was thrown into the mix of course i'd expect to see gains.
but as for the hks versus the itg debate, i think the paj evo has a lot more potential to release than the fto or cyborg, it is a 3.5litre and only pushing out 260, break horse per litre is only 75 and compared to nearly 100 in the gpx and the same in the cyborg.

[Myfeckin FTO]

.......the 1.6 mivec is tuned extremely well and an exhaust will probably not release any gains. granted if downpipes, de-cat, fse fuel regulator and piggy back ecu was thrown into the mix of course i'd expect to see gains.

That was my original point in suggesting the performance exhaust in the first place.

... would then allow you to go further in the future by making a performance manifold and downpipes a realistic addition.
It will also help your existing HKS induction to realise more gains - its not the individual performance parts that will add to BHP gains - its the sum of the parts!.

The SS exhaust would be a good addition to his present HKS induction - then he'll have a good base to build on for future mods - as for any performance gains on the HKS + DeCat exhaust all I can say is - Ronan get it back on the rolling road and put this one to bed for us.

[soc]

Interesting discussion lads - I wonder is there ever a right or wrong answer to this one

Personally (IMHE) as far as NA cars go I don't think you'll ever get any really noticable gains unless you spend a lot of cash - that said I'm sure there are exceptions where good gains are realised from something as simple as a filter change or exhaust change.

I remember I had my 205 gti and I was determined to make it faster - started with an induction kit, added better plugs and leads and then a straight through exhaust. Cost me around 600/700 punts (ahhhh, the old money) and to be honest I could hardly notice the difference in normal road driving - the only time I could really see any difference was if I got the chance to redline the car in at least the 1st 3 gears. And even then it was negligible - plus I lost some low down torque. And let's be honest, how often do you really drive around redlining your car in all gears .

Anyway I went a bit further and fitted the Mi-16 head and some throttle bodies - now I did see some improvements but for the money it just wasn't worth it Best thing I did was fit some decent brakes and koni suspension - car was totally transformed after that.

So, IMHO, if you're looking for any really noticable performance improvements on a NA car you'll probably have to spend big bucks to get there..... sure that's why I was determined to get a turbo this time around.

I do agree with MfFTO - if you've got a MIVEC then get an exhaust for the noise alone

[Mustang]

Interseting stuff Shane, I'm not so sure that it's as simple as turbo v's n/a cars though. I think the starting point is whats most important, i.e. the stock engine and set up.

Dave wrote

i think the paj evo has a lot more potential to release than the fto or cyborg, it is a 3.5litre and only pushing out 260, break horse per litre is only 75 and compared to nearly 100 in the gpx and the same in the cyborg.

Couldn't agree more, lets face it the paj evo has a fairly lazy stock set up, whereas the borg has a fairly highly tuned set up.

[Myfeckin FTO]

....Best thing I did was fit some decent brakes and koni suspension - car was totally transformed after that.

Good point - theres nothing like sorted suspension and good brakes and performance tyres on a car - the first thing you should do before you think about spending any amount of money on performance mods for the sake of small bhp gains. The best way to make a car go fast especially on a track is to improve braking, handling and grip.

Theres not much point in making your car faster if its still not able to handle or brake particularly well.

[soc]

Theres not much point in making your car faster if its still not able to handle or brake particularly well.

And if you want a really good example to prove the point just go drive a standard MkIV Golf GTI with worn rear shocks

[soc]

Interseting stuff Shane, I'm not so sure that it's as simple as turbo v's n/a cars though. I think the starting point is whats most important, i.e. the stock engine and set up.

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head here - when I thought about it I realised the only reason the golf's give such a good increase is because it's under-tuned - it runs the same engine as the 180bhp TT yet only gives out 150bhp. But the Cyborg (and FTO for that matter) are both highly tuned - 160(ish)bhp from an N/A 1.6 is pretty impressive to start with so I'd say without spending big bucks (or adding a turbo/supercharger) you'd be hard pressed to get much of an increase on stock power - probably nothing you'd really notice anyway -

[Ronanc]

wow so many replies..iam behind..lol cant keep up.

Ok I am going to see if I can track down a second hand exhaust system and get a decat pipe...

You are right...mivec is highly tuned already, but keep in mind that these pocket rockets are ment to be 172 from factory, so with my result of 164.8 I think I can improve a little bit on that anyway...takin the cat out will defo help!

@ my feckin, sure the line up will be done!

A mate of mine got a lovely nissan silvia s 15, 2 of us side by side at about 60, put foot down and what happened? side by side.. he cudnt pull away from me at all!! it was mad,the silvia is a 2l turbo both cars were exactly the same, until near end of 4th gear..he started to pull away slightly...that was quickly over come by my delimiter,

look up the specs of the silvia here
http://www.live2cruize.com/Tech/Nissan/silvias15.htm

So my feckin...I will bet money that i can take you out of it anyday! lol

[soc]

look up the specs of the silvia here
http://www.live2cruize.com/Tech/Nissan/silvias15.htm

Man, you're car must weigh feck all - doesn't the stock jap spec s15 Silvia put out around 250bhp??

http://www.fast-autos.net/nissan/nissansilvia.html

I reckon you should get your mate to make sure his turbo is connected cause unless your car weights as little as an elise I can't see how you'd match him if he had is foot down

Anyway I'm not sure I'd put much stock in that website you listed either - it says on there that the 0-62 is 5.5 for the Silvia which I think is about right for the 2.0lt turbo (250bhp) Silvia. But the max power listed on this site is only 184kw (about 177bhp) and there's no way it would hit 0-62 in 5.5 with only 184kw cause it weighs about 1250kg.

IMHO that site is quoting a mix of specs from the different available Silvia's cause there is a 2.0lt n/a and a 2.4lt n/a car as well as the 2.0lt turbo and AFAIK the 2.4lt n/a car has about 175bhp.

[Mustang]

n/a cars have quoted figures of between 160 and 200bhp. Turbo cars are quoted between 225 & 250bhp. (although I think those figures are probably over the whole silvia range not just the S15)

[Ronanc]

he has a upgraded turbo...his is about 270 bhp, standard form they are 250 bhp, that site has wrong specs for output,

Nothing wrong with his yoke...its running sweet, 21k mile on it, my cyborg is just a anti-christ once over 100 kph

Ronan

[Dave]

You are right...mivec is highly tuned already, but keep in mind that these pocket rockets are ment to be 172 from factory, so with my result of 164.8 I think I can improve a little bit on that anyway...takin the cat out will defo help!

you've also to remember though that the car is a few years old and it's not running on the same octane petrol over here as it would have in japan, so a loss of say 7bhp isn't too bad!

[Myfeckin FTO]

So my feckin...I will bet money that i can take you out of it anyday! lol

Well - there is a gonna be an offical 1/4 mile run down here in Limerick in the next couple of months so you'll be able to prove that your 165bhp car (thats maybe 50kgs lighter) can beat a Manual GPX with 193BHP and an extra 24lbs/ft of torque in a 1/4 mile sprint.

Bring your wallet if you like - But seeing as I'm at such a disadvantage (what with you beating a turbo Silvia) I will be expecting you will be able to offer me some good odds!

[Ronanc]

@ dave thats good point, wish we could get 100 ron here in the garage...would be great


@Myfeckin hehehe, we will just have to wait and see I suppose

Ronan