The Irish Mitsubishi FTO Owners Club

I was just wondering what other peoples experience of being unemployed and the system.
I have been out of work over 2 years now. Drew down my "Job seekers allowance" and after that apparently I was entitled to nothing.

Status
Married. Wife in full time employment.6 month old. mortage etc etc. No different to most people.
I have been paying taxes since I was 16. I sometimes wonder would I have been better riding the system like all the other wasters that do it.

steelroe wrote:I was just wondering what other peoples experience of being unemployed and the system.
I have been out of work over 2 years now. Drew down my "Job seekers allowance" and after that apparently I was entitled to nothing.

Status
Married. Wife in full time employment.6 month old. mortage etc etc. No different to most people.
I have been paying taxes since I was 16. I sometimes wonder would I have been better riding the system like all the other wasters that do it.

Sorry to hear that mate - 2 years is a long time - dunno much about it tbh but would have thought you'd be entitled to basic dole given you've been paying prsi since 16 yrs old?

When you say you've used up you're job seekers allowance Rory does that mean that you're getting nothing of them?! Cause that surely cant be right! Theres plenty of 'wasters', like you put it, doing nothing for years and getting full payments and everything else they can!
When I got made redundant last year I wanted to claim a couple of months rent relief, they wanted me to apply for affordable housing first to go on the system, I refused and explained that I was leaving the country in a few months and all I want is the 4 months relief I was entitled to, paying them enough for the last 15 years through taxes! But no, I got not one penny, whereas others can walk in there and get whatever they like. Like a lot of things unfortunately when it comes to handouts there are too many people fleecing the system and the ones who actually deserve it get rode.
I presume you have the mortgage protection running? Presume you've checked up this site too; http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories.
Still, hopefully things will change for you soon and you'll get back to some sort of daily grind soon enough.

If you go to prison they'll pay your mortgage for you while you're inside.

Not sure if that helps.

It's a dose alright. apparently the PRSI stamps arent proportionate to the amount you put in or for how long.

colm_mcm wrote:If you go to prison they'll pay your mortgage for you while you're inside.

Really?? Plus you get free food 3 times a day, and free gym membership.

Yeah, you'll cost the taxpayer €60k a year and get your mortgage paid at the same time

Where's the incentive to do anything right?

Im unemployed to since I left college last september and i moved in with me girlfriend.
Even though we are not married or engaged etc her wages (which are good) are taken into consideration just because we live under the same roof so i get f**ck all dole and 20 euro rent allowance which just about get food on my table as her money is hers and mine is mine.

If your wife has a good wage then that is why (plus savings etc) but if its not then you are entitled to support. the citizen advise website will be the best for answering your questions and if you got a nice community welfare officer go and see then and explain your smoney strain and they may be able to look into it for you

stewy, if say you were renting off your girlfriend would it be a different story. I mean suppose ye weren't going out anymore would that change things from their point of view?

I always say I'm single in things like that even though I'm in a relationship. I don't see the need unless its a married circumstance to put it down as being otherwise.

colm_mcm wrote:stewy, if say you were renting off your girlfriend would it be a different story. I mean suppose ye weren't going out anymore would that change things from their point of view?

I don't know what the story would be then (but thanks for the idea )... i think they would find it a bit beculiar that we'd still be living together and would catch ya out somewho as they are more sneeky than you think in finding out if your story on your form is true.

Dragonheart wrote:I always say I'm single in things like that even though I'm in a relationship. I don't see the need unless its a married circumstance to put it down as being otherwise.

I actually said i was single but my girlfriend was umemployed then said we were a couple and i was called in and questioned about it lol. plus there is always someone out there to pull you down.

I think they run the job seekers allowance for 13 months, after this point it stops, but you can then be assessed to see if you're entitled to the dole, the two are different.

I presume you've transferred all your tax credits onto the wife??

Check the citizen's advice site, that should explain exactly what you're entitled to.

My girlfriend was made redundant recently and claims job seekers allowance, and they have asked what I earn, but it made no difference to her entitlement, she still got the full allowance, i think it only comes into consideration if you earn less than 400 a week, you come out with an extra 20-30 a week or something like that....

Either way, the system is a joke, there are plenty of "single" mother's, claiming the single mother's allowance all the while "fella" is still living with them, this is the one that bother's me most!

AFAIK, if you are not married in the eyes of the law you're considered single. Who you're with is irrelevant, you may not be with them next week.

Same goes for a marriage though. Just cos you're married doesn't mean it won't work, and since there's no law against divorce then I can't see how it correlates. Silly system based on even sillier old ideals.

I have to agree with Laura, just cause you're going out with someone doesnt mean you share all your bank accounts or benfits, then again just cause you're married doesnt either but most married couple will have at least one account in a joint name.

Dragonheart wrote:I have to agree with Laura, just cause you're going out with someone doesnt mean you share all your bank accounts or benfits, then again just cause you're married doesnt either but most married couple will have at least one account in a joint name.

In the eyes of the law and the tax man. you are either married or single (lets just ignore widowed, and divorced for now).
Hate to brake it to all the idealists out there, but marriage is a legal contract -nothing more nothing less. Effectively two become one (at least in part) for tax purposes.
If you are not married then you are single, It doesn't matter if you co habitate, sleep around or are celibate. Single is as single does. like it says on the tin SINGLE- as in one person. Married=Married. Unmarried= Single. This is not facebook people, the taxman doesn't care if you have a girl/boy friend, saying that you are not single, when you are not married would in fact be a false declaration.

@Steelroe, I assume you are bing means tested, and as a result of being prudent and having saved you are now being punished because you 'have enough to get by'. As always the prudent and thrifty are punished. Still with a mortgage and a dependant I'd have thought you get something even with your wife working -am I too naive?

Mustang wrote:If you are not married then you are single, It doesn't matter if you co habitate, sleep around or are celibate.

In an ideal world

I have to disagree with you Mustang, they cherry pick to a certain extent........you may be single, but if you have a child with your girl/boy friend and if you are co-habiting, you cannot claim single parents tax credits or single mother's allowance!

Dave wrote:I have to disagree with you Mustang, they cherry pick to a certain extent........you may be single, but if you have a child with your girl/boy friend and if you are co-habiting, you cannot claim single parents tax credits or single mother's allowance!

Dave, I will not disagree with you because you are of course correct. However you have taken a special case subset -of the single population i.e. the unmarried mother with dependant child, to illustrate your point. It does not contradict or invalidate the comments I have made above. In this case the term 'single' is effectively defined in lay mans terms i.e. without a partner, as opposed to unmarried, although unmarried is a prerequisit.
I guess the tax and law in general are written around and defined in terms of a 'traditional' family unit, and are not such a good fit with modern lifestyles/family units.

OT (Discussion on Single mothers allowance).
Do they still call it that? Seems very non-PC. Should it not be single parents allowance. I mean what if the father is left holding the child and the mother fecks off, Is he not entitled to this payment?
The purpose of this payment was to ease the financial burden on single mothers who were effectively left holding the baby by the (absent) father. The father more or less assumed to be absent, if they are not married, or more importantly not living together, and as he was 'absent' then also assumed to not be contributing towards the childs up keep -hence the government subsidy. You can sugar coat it if you wish but that is the original thought process and logic behind it.

There are many issues why this is flawed. and I wont cover all of them
1. If the couple (family unit) are still togther, there is a financial incentive for them, in receiving the single mothers allowance, for the father to live seperately from the mother and child. i.e. to maintanin the facade that she is a 'single mother' (without partner). Effectively the fiscal law is discouraging the co habitating, development and nuture of the family unit -this is wrong.
2. If the couple and child are cohabitating, they are living as a family unit. The father is not 'absent' so why should the state sponser the mother? Afterall she would not receive this payment if they were married? Whether people decided to have children in or out of marriage is their own concern and the state should remain neutral. it should not encorage people (by way of financial incentive) to have a child in one scenario or the other.

I have a question on this topic -seeing as we are taking atypical examples
If a single mother is cohabitating with her boyfriend, who is not the father of her child, is she still entitled to 'single mothers' allowance?
Is she doomed to stay single if she wants this payment, or is the new boyfriend expected to pay for the child. Just curiuos like?

@Steelroe sorry for the thread hijack

Dave wrote:I have to disagree with you Mustang, they cherry pick to a certain extent........you may be single, but if you have a child with your girl/boy friend and if you are co-habiting, you cannot claim single parents tax credits or single mother's allowance!

This was the case up to a couple of years ago, but then the law was changed, and now an you can claim unmarried mothers allowance while living together.

This post was more to see what other people in similar situations had found delaing with the system.
I am not on the breadline yet but was disgusted to find that once i had exhausted my "job seekers allowance" I was entitled to nothing.

steelroe wrote:
I am not on the breadline yet but was disgusted to find that once i had exhausted my "job seekers allowance" I was entitled to nothing.

If people can finish college -without having ever been employed and go on the dole -even if temporarily, then surely a long term PRSI contributer is entitled to something. It is means tested but, with a mortgage (I'm assuming) and dependent child I would have thought you'd be entitled to something.
I have a figure of €40k in my head for some reason...if you're net worth (savings) is over €40k then you're on your own -can anybody confirm? Must look that one up....

Edit, €40k is the just the upper savings band for the purpose of means testing savings
I knew it had some significance.

I know theres some figure if you're made redundant, its something like if you get over €20K redundancy then you have to wait so long before applying, but I dont know about savings coming into it if you're applying. Could be something in the small print though.

The basic job seelers allowance is €196 p/w plus €130.10 "increase for a qualified adult" However I can not find any definition of the term "qualified adult" on the welfare site. I'm not sure if they mean qualified as in with a degree, diploma, trade, of do the mean qualifying by virtue of your lack of means?

@ Dave re the single /married thing. I think we were approaching this from different angles.
For the purpose of paying tax to the Revenue commissioners, you are deemed to be either single or married in the black and white terms I have spelled out above -with no recognition of a 'common law' cohabitating couple situation. This is the angle I was taking.
For the purpose of receiving payment from the Department of social welfare they do seem to re-write the rules, skew them in their favour and catogorise you in the most favourable financial terms for themselves. I was reading through the dept of welfare site last night and have to say I am disgusted by the double standard they operate.
Take the scenario of two singles cohabitating as a couple. They pay their taxes individually and as singles. Unlike a married couple they do not have the option to share their tax credits, and/or share their standard tax rate band to full effect -if beneficial to do so. If one of them looses their job, and seeks job seekers allowance, they will be means tested and as part of this their partners (boy/girl friend's) income will be taken into account. I.e. when you pay the tax you are deemed single, when it comes to receiving payment, they categorise you as 'married' by virtue of you cohabitation and expect your boy/girl friend to bale you out financially.
If the same singles were living apart the working partners income would not be factored in, for the claim (and assuming a simple example) and the claiment would receive the full amount.

Being Married is a very differnt thing, as I stated above it is a legal contract, which you openly enter into as a consenting adult, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, so you effectively assume the financial burden of your spouse.

If the same couple mentioned above were in fact married, they could share their credits, and standard rate band to best effect, while both are working. And when one of them looses their job they can transfer their combined credits and standard rate band allowance (within limits) to the working spouse (as Dave has advised above). This option is not available to the cohabitating singles, who still are single when it come to paying tax but are 'married' when it comes to recieving benefit. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong as I would love to be. Otherwise this would surely to subject to legal challange?
I just can understand how they can operate this double standard and offload their financial liability to your working partner.

Again Steelroe sorry for the rant, but this has me in a tail spin! Sorry to hear about your circumstances. Anything on the horizon?
You could always try exporting FTO turbo kits, there seems to be good money in it.

if you regisar now to do a full time college corse startin september you are intitled to your back to education allowance which is 196.00 a wk plus travel up to 20 euro and 4 euro meal allowance........ your money will be paid straight into ur bank account NO MORE SIGNIN ON !!! once u start ur college you can apply for many grants some to the value of 6k to help u on ur way !!!!!!!!! i should know started september ... dec flew in xmas holidays.... now only bk a week or 2and more holidays in feb !!!! we get 2 weeks off for easter and we finish up in may !!!!!! get the back to education allowance during the summer and starts all over again this sep for year 2 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there are adult education centres all over that will show u whats on offer good luck !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keenan, give the number 1 key a break, it doesn't deserve that sort of abuse...

I know theres some figure if you're made redundant, its something like if you get over €20K redundancy then you have to wait so long before applying

Redundancy payments in excess of €50k incur wait time before jobseeker's benefit is paid, the lenght of time is pro-rata to payments above €50k.

CJ