My FTO GR won't start

[briencrean]

Hi all,

I went to start my FTO today and... nothing! The relays in the fuse box under the hood were clicking and can hear a faint sound that may be electrical but almost sounds like gas being released!

I thought it was my immobliser after kicking in. I have a clifford G5 alarm installed so I tried arming and disarming, entering the PIN - no change.

I eventually push started it and got it going but it wont start on its own anymore. I know it sounds obvious, the starter motor is probably gone, because for the last while when I was able to start the car I got a scraping noise that sounded like it was the motor scraping AFTER the engine turned over. But is there anything else that could be the cause???

Are there any mechanics in the Limerick area that are good with FTO's

Thanks

Brien

[CJ]

Definetely sounds like the starter is shot, common FTO fault. You can either replace (see www.camskill.co.uk) or refurb (your local autoelectrician).

CJ

[briencrean]

Thanks CJ,

Is it hard to remove the starter motor in an FTO 95 GR? It would probably only be worth my while getting it re-conditioned if I was able to remove it myself. Out of curiosity where abouts is the motor located in the engine bay? Is it under the gear box?

Thanks

Brien

[kevinod]

I don't have a picture it of the engine bay, but basically its connected to the cam shaft at the opposite end to the cam shaft pulley so should be easy to find.

You can find a pic of the starter motor itself here - http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m3b0s9p196

[briencrean]

I just went out to the car with a mechanically minded friend and tried to start the car with the key - It started first time to my complete shock! He reckons its not the starter motor but is no expert on FTOs. Does anyone know what else it might be?

Thanks

[d_dan]

wire loose on the starter! nice shiny euro for ya if you can prove me wrong

[Kace]

wire loose on the starter! nice shiny euro for ya if you can prove me wrong

This is worth checking - the other place that this could be is at the other end of the wiring where the starter motor connects to the ignition.

I have this from time to time but it's very intermittent and I have already replaced the starter motor with another second-hand one (neither have been reconditioned though)

Let us know how you get on !!!

[briencrean]

Myself and a friend went at the 95 GR today. The starter motor is very easy to find and remove. If you look where the front center jack point on an FTO is located you are only a few inches from the motor.

It is between the engine sump and the center jack point at the very bottom of the engine bay. Only a few bolts 12mm bolts and the electrical cables hold it in place. However you do have to disconnect the beginning of the exhaust from where it is connected to the manifold to get at the motor properly! This is a little tricky if the bolts are a little seized like mine!!

I'm going to bring it to an auto electrician once I get a chance and see if it needs to be re-conditioned!

I'll post an update once I get the motor looked at!!

[TopCat]

I'm in the Limerick area and I know MyFeckin said he knew a mechanic who was good with FTO's when I was looking to get some work done on mine. Didn't use him in the end (was back up home and my old man's a mechanic) so I don't have the details myself, but maybe MyFeckin might enlighten you
You got any pics of the car so we might be able to recognise you about limerick? Its not a black MH-reg by any chance?

[briencrean]

That would be great if I could find a good mechanic for FTO's in Limerick! Dublins a long way to go!

No I have a Black 95 D Reg. I still have to put a thread into the Introduce yourself Forum. I'll add a thread later with some pics. The car is beached at the moment.

Im driving a 1.6 Renault Megane in the meantime.. CRINGE!

I want my FTO back

[briencrean]

I brought the starter motor to an auto-electrician's in limerick today - He told me that the starter's arm is almost at its end and needs to be replaced - He replaced the arm, bushes and bearings and I fitted it back on the car this evening.

The motor is turning fine now but the car still refuses to start - jump starting will not even start it! When turning the ignition, the starter turns and I get a quiet sucking noise. I thought this sounded like there is no petrol to be sucked into the engine. There is petrol in the engine!!

I then thought this might be the Clifford G5 alarm's immobiliser as it had the car tilted at an angle, so I reset the alarm to factory settings - no change.

Is there a fuel cut off switch or standard FTO Immobilser that might be stopping me from starting the car and needs to be reset or can anyone think of anything else??!?

Thanks

Brien

[colm_mcm]

is the drive pinion on the starter actually pushing out and engaging the flywheel? is the noise you hear the starter motor spinning?

[briencrean]

The starter motor is definitely spinning but I cant see if the fly wheel is being engaged by the motor, its very cramped in the engine bay, but surely without the starter I should still be able to jump start the car??

[colm_mcm]

by jump start you mean pushing it?

(my understanding of jump starting is using jumpleads when the battery is flat)

If the starter motor has been reconditioned, it should be working though.

it's possible to test the starter by clamping it into a vice and wiring it up to a battery.

[briencrean]

Sorry I meant push start the car! Thats how I got my car home when the problem started - My battery is fine - All the electrics in the car are working with the ignition and the voltmeter reads 14V

We tried push starting last night a few times which didnt work! Thats why I thought of a fuel cut off switch - it cant be the immobiliser because the starter is turning!

The starter is definatley spinning but you may be right - the flywheel might not be engaged by the starter pinion. Its very hard to see but I might be able to get at it

[CJ]

Have you got an immobilisor fitted? If so, try turning it off. Check all of the fuses (internal and engine bay) while you're at it.

CJ

[briencrean]

I have an immobiliser as part of my Clifford alarm but I reset it last night, unless the standard factory fitted immobiliser is causing my problem?

The only problem with the fuses is that some clever person before me who owned the car painted over the cover of the fuse box which had the diagram of all the fuses in the car. Still its work testing them all I suppose.

Has anyone got a fuse diagram for a GR FTO?

[Kace]

I brought the starter motor to an auto-electrician's in limerick today - He told me that the starter's arm is almost at its end and needs to be replaced - He replaced the arm, bushes and bearings and I fitted it back on the car this evening.

The fuse diagram should be either on this site or ftooc.org if you search for it.

Afaik, there is no 'factory' immobiliser in the car at all so this shouldn't be the issue.

Given that it's not your starter, it sounds like your next port of call should be to do a diagnostic. The instructions are on FTOOC.org and it involves a little dab-handedness with an earth wire under the steering column if I remember correctly.

Finally, would you mind letting me know how much you paid to get that overhaul done to your starter motor ?

[CJ]

Brian, get a copy of the FTO owners manual on the downloads page, fuse box layouts are included:

http://www.fto-ireland.com/downloads.html

Link for Diagnosic process:

http://www.ftowa.com/html/workshop/workshopart07.html

CJ

[colm_mcm]

doesn't the immobiliser work on the fuel pump and not the starter motor itself?

[briencrean]

It cost €135 to get the motor refurbished, a refurbished one from camskill would have been £125 sterling.

I'm gonna search for that info now

Do I have to join the ftooc.org to be able to look at that information?

[Kace]

See CJ's post above for all the details you require.

[briencrean]

I'm trying to follow the guide for the diagnostics but I'm not sure about what to do.

I found the diagnostic connector behind the cover under the steering wheel. Here are the images.





I presume I have to just earth the furthest pin to the right to the body of the car while the ignition is on? I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing before I fry my electrics!

How will I know if I have connected it right if there are no error codes?

Thanks for all your help so far guys

Brien[/img]

[briencrean]

Scratch that guys. I connected a small cable to the diagnostics connector and earthed it - The engine warning light flashed continually - more than once per second - should I be worried?

I thought is was supposed to be once per second if there are no error codes stored?

[Kace]

Sounds like it's OK then. Someone else who has carried this out for a healthy engine will need to confirm that it flashes more than once per second - I haven't done it myself.