Importing Classics

[Dragonheart]

Just a quick one on importing classics, whats the deal with the VRT on these? If they're over 21 they're vintage correct? How long is it for classic? Or does that count as classic too? Thinking of bringing in a capri brooklands or manta or maybe an integrale from across the water in the future.
Cheers.

[Mustang]

For tax purposes the car must be at least 30 years old to avail of 'classic' rate of of VRT and motor tax.

[colm_mcm]

and given that these cars won't have certificates of conformity or any proof of emissions, any old car under 30 years old will get shafted VRT-wise

[kevinod]

Dunno about the emissions thing... isn't that just for new cars? I was quoted based on what VRO decided was the open market selling price for my 79 Porsche 928. Noone mentioned emissions, unless they've taken that into account in the background.

As Mustang says, its 30 years but just to clarify it is 30 years to the date of registration. A car originally registered on say 1st July 1980 (date out of the air) won't qualify for the 50 quid VRT until 1st July 30 years after original registration, i.e. 1st July 2010, and same for motor tax.

[colm_mcm]

Dunno about the emissions thing... isn't that just for new cars? I was quoted based on what VRO decided was the open market selling price for my 79 Porsche 928. Noone mentioned emissions, unless they've taken that into account in the background.
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the VRT will be a percentage of the open market selling price, if it's at the top rate, it'd be 36%.

did they give you an indication as to the annual road tax (I'm thinking €2k)

that's going on what revenue.ie and my local VRO told me in June.

[Mustang]

Dunno about the emissions thing... isn't that just for new cars? I was quoted based on what VRO decided was the open market selling price for my 79 Porsche 928. Noone mentioned emissions, unless they've taken that into account in the background.
.

the VRT will be a percentage of the open market selling price, if it's at the top rate, it'd be 36%.

did they give you an indication as to the annual road tax (I'm thinking €2k)

that's going on what revenue.ie and my local VRO told me in June.

The motor tax for pre 2008 cars is still cc based, in which case the maximum price is ~€1400 for >3L car. The €2k motor tax would only apply to 2008 onward cars which fall into the top emmissions band.

[kevinod]

Road tax for the year would be about 1500 as per the motor tax website.

[colm_mcm]

The €2k motor tax would only apply to 2008 onward cars which fall into the top emmissions band.

Ok, I was told under a month ago that if you had no evidence of CO2 emissions, then you would face maximum VRT and motor tax. in fact, revenue.ie said this too. they have now changed that and added this:

What happens if I want to import a second-hand car manufactured before 1997 and the documentation does not have details of the level of CO2 emissions?
In such instances, if the details of the fuel consumption of the vehicle are available, [the combined figures – derived from an average of the urban and extra-urban figures] the level of CO2 for the vehicle may be calculated using the formulae below.

Metric Calculations:

where the fuel consumption is shown as litres per 100km:
CO2 = fuel consumption x 23.20
e.g. If the fuel is shown as 5.81/100km then
5.8 x 23.20 = CO2 emissions of 134.56 or 135
where the fuel consumption is shown as litres per km:
CO2 emissions = fuel consumption/km then
If the fuel consumption is 0.058 x 2320
= CO2 emissions of 134.56 or 135
where the fuel consumption is shown as km per litre:
CO2 emissions = 2320/fuel consumption
If the fuel consumption is shown as 17.2 per litre then 2320/17.2
= CO2 emissions of 134.88 or 135
Imperial Calculations:

where the fuel consumption is shown as miles per gallon the figures must be converted to kms per litre as follows:
mpg/2.82485 = km per litre.
CO2 emissions are then calculated using the formula in c above.
e.g. If the fuel consumption is shown as 48.7 mpg then
5.8 48.7/2.82485 = 17.2 km per gallon and
2320/17.2 CO2 emissions of 134.88 or 135

Sorry to bring the thread way OT.

[Mustang]

Colm Thanks for the input it is good to see that they have and are prepared to use an mpg to CO2 conversion factor, instead of just applying a blanket rate of 36% VRT to all cars without an emmissions cert. But again just to clarify this applies to VRT only the motor tax rates for pre '08 cars will still be cc based regardless of emmissions, This has been clear and the published line from the Government for many months now. The possibility of CO2 based motor tax for older cars was dropped at an early stage of the formation of this legislation.
From the revenue website

Will my motor tax be affected by the new CO2 regime?
Yes, motor tax is also affected. However, the Motor Tax changes will only apply to cars with a 08 or later registration plate. The motor tax charges will be available on the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government web site http://www.environ.ie. The Motor Tax rates will be determined by the CO2 levels of the vehicle declared to and accepted by Revenue at registration.

From the dept of Environment website regarding motor tax

The new CO2 based system will not apply to second-hand imports that were registered abroad prior to 2008.

http://www.environ.ie./en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/

[colm_mcm]

The possibility of CO2 based motor tax for older cars was dropped at an early stage of the formation of this legislation.

I know this, but until a few weeks ago, revenue stated that if no satisfactory emissions documentation was available, then the maximum rate of VRT, and a €2,000 per year annual road tax would be applied.

[Bernard]

So importing FTOs is still doable, just slightly higher VRT.

It could have been a lot worse.

[Mustang]

The possibility of CO2 based motor tax for older cars was dropped at an early stage of the formation of this legislation.

I know this, but until a few weeks ago, revenue stated that if no satisfactory emissions documentation was available, then the maximum rate of VRT, and a €2,000 per year annual road tax would be applied.

Not officially though Colm, The message on the revenue website was clear for some time now. It sounds to me like you phoned up and got the monkey instead of the organ grinder. I'd say staff training on the issue is severely lacking.

[colm_mcm]

It sounds to me like you phoned up and got the monkey instead of the organ grinder. I'd say staff training on the issue is severely lacking.

I downloaded the text from the site at the time, will try and dig it out! it doesn't change the way it is now, but at least I'll know I'm not crazy.

[Mustang]

It sounds to me like you phoned up and got the monkey instead of the organ grinder. I'd say staff training on the issue is severely lacking.

I downloaded the text from the sitat the time, will try and dig it out! it doesn't change the way it is now, but at least I'll know I'm not crazy.

Perhaps the pressures of the economic downturn combined with the extra stress of your new events manager role are getting to you

[colm_mcm]

Originally on revenue.ie - now removed

In the absence of a Certificate of Conformity and the Revenue Commissioners not otherwise being satisfied as to the CO2 rating of a car by reference to any other supporting documentation, the motorist will be required to pay the highest motor tax rate. The same approach will apply to VRT.

if you google that text, it is still used in some county council websites. that bit about fuel consumption was only added recently too. seems they're making it up as they go along!

[Myfeckin FTO]

.......... seems they're making it up as they go along!

I don't doubt that for a second! No thought was actually put into the VRT/Road Tax CO2 debacle by the Govt. There was very little information in the lead up to July and even now it seems very liquid.

Now the Govt are going to feel the pinch financially when the majority of drivers switch to low CO2 cars - and they'll just have to raise the rates again in the not too distant future (maybe even the next budget) cause we all know the reason they changed over to the new system was to make more money (with some Green issues pretence) - So we can all look forward to driving lower powered cars but paying much more tax and VRT for them when the Govt play catch-up. I can't for the life of me see how they can raise the top level of road tax (from 2K) which very few people will be on in any case so it'll be the lower levels that will be hit hardest.

[Dragonheart]

Thanks for clearing that up for me there lads, not a bit confused now at all!



So for VRT, Kev you mentioned E50 there, is that a standard on a classic, ie, 30 years old? Or is it still at the percentage thing? Whats the tax and insurance like? Thats usually ok isnt it?

[kevinod]

Thanks for clearing that up for me there lads, not a bit confused now at all!



So for VRT, Kev you mentioned E50 there, is that a standard on a classic, ie, 30 years old? Or is it still at the percentage thing? Whats the tax and insurance like? Thats usually ok isnt it?

For cars >30 years old from date of original registration, VRT is €50 and Tax is about €46 quid. Nice and straightforward once you get to that age. No percentages or anything like that.

Insurance is low too... for my 79 928, 4.5L, limited to 4000 miles, I'm paying €300. Carol Nash seemed very good to deal with, no hassles, and actually took off 20 quid from what they quoted me when I went to take them up on it.

[Dragonheart]

Thanks Kev, thats not too bad at all actually! Even limited to 4000 miles, it would only be for the odd weekend anyway, not a daily driver by any means. Just got to wait till 2016 now so until they hit 30 years! What about a car that has been redone, say like a Mustang or Charger or something absolutely crazily ridiculous like that? Even if they're from '67 but totally redone does it still count as being a '67?

[kevinod]

For high value cars they supposedly take it on a case by case basis but I think you're talking money yourself and myself needn't be worrying about!

As far as I know it's just age/original reg date it's based on, not whether the car has been redone/pimped/overhauled/etc.

[colm_mcm]

I got classic insurance on the ill-fated Saab Turbo for €300, and that was late 1988 so not even 20 years old, that was fully comp. seriously cheap. could have got insurance on a V8 Mercedes SLC for even less.

First Ireland was who I contacted and they were hugely helpful.