Christmas meet / Rolling road day

[Bernard]

The meet and greet we had last month was a great success with a much better turn out than I expected.
To follow on from that, (and as briefly discussed atop a mountain in Laois) how about a rolling road day?

Westward Engineering in Co. Meath comes highly recommended to me by a friend.
The same guy drives a rally car for a hobby and swears by them for setting it up, as do many others apparently.
Dynos are notorious for either massaging egos with unrealistic figures or just being inaccurate so if we're going to do it we might as well do it right.

I had hoped to offer a choice of dates but the only one available to us is Saturday the 1st of December.
The cost is €60 each (assuming FWD) and that includes Tea/Coffee and "munchies"...
That's based on 8-12 cars attending which I'm sure won't be a problem.

The last time the club had a rolling road day was before my time so we're loooong overdue.
The vast majority of us love our cars for what they are and aren't chasing big BHP figures but at the same time it'd be nice to know just how many horses have escaped since they rolled off the line in Japan. I know I'm curious.

I've pasted the email reply I got earlier (below) for your information.
I've asked for clarification regarding the testing of tiptronics so I should have the answer to that one later.
It's worth having a read as we'll have to agree to their terms in order to proceed but other that being a little sticky with photography there's nothing there you wouldn't expect.

As always ex-FTO owners are still welcome, even ones with more horsepower than the rest of us...
It was great to see so many new faces at the last meet so be sure and come to this one too, and if you couldn't make the last one then this is your chance to redeem yourself.

EDIT:
They cannot test Tiptronic cars

Hello Bernard,

Thanks for your call today.

We
can offer to run 5 -12 cars on Saturday, December 01st 2012.
We require a list of cars in advance for approval - details 2 /4wd - front/rear wd/ manual /auto etc.
As per telephone conversation, please check cars re: electric centre diff/ no automatics/ no tiptronics etc
Please compile a list of names of those persons attending in advance - one driver and one passenger only per car.
We ask that no more than those people on the list provided ( 2 people incl driver per car) attend - for Health & Safety Requirements.

We do not require a deposit - each person can pay the group organiser when they have their run & the Organiser can make
payment in full at the end of the day.

Euro 60.00 for 2wd Dyno Run.
Euro 100.00 for 4wd Dyno Run.

We would ask that all/ most be present for 10.00 am to begin.

It would be advisable for everyone to service their car / and check oil levels & regular oil/ filter change before they attend - in order
to get the best possible from their car on the day.

We provide Tea/ Coffee, Munchies & soft drinks on the day, without charge, in addition some festive treats.

Please note that on a Rolling Road Day, we only power test the car & give a print out of power & torque, and the tester will give
advice / comments on the car for your consideration. It is not possible for us to tune cars on a RR day. If you require a tuning session
for any of your members cars, we can arrange an appointment generally during Mon - Fri 9am - 1pm & 2pm -7.30pm, please contact
us with details of your car and your current requirements.

Please provide details of filming / recording or photography in advance. We require a contact name for person in charge of recording/
photos on the day. We request that our premises location & company name is acknowledged on any reproduction of photos and that
written permission is sought in advance of reproduction of photos for any commercial purposes.

Just a note for insurance/ liability. We have been fortunate to date, to never have experienced engine damage or failure during our testing
or tuning procedures. All cars are inspected and we reserve the right to refuse to test a car, should we have any concern or reservation on
the Rolling Road day. It is surprising the number of cars that come for a power run with little or no engine oil !

All cars are dyno tested at the customers request. The customer should be satisfied that their car is in good working order before they consider
getting their car tested. Engine damage or failure is rare and typically results from poor quality parts or poor assembly procedures. Westward
Precision Engineering assumes no responsibility for engine content, quality or final tuning authority. Should engine damage or failure occur the
customer accepts all responsibility. Customers further assume all risk for damage that may occur during testing. In the unlikely event of engine
failure/ damage customer is responsible for cleaning cost of our Dyno cell.

Should you require any additional information or assistance, or if you have any special requirements or suggestions as to how we can help
make your day more memorable, please do not hesitate to call 046 9541622 or 046 9541755.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards
Joanna Weldon

[goz_83]

I expect I will be able to attend. Will be the perfect excuse for an oil change I think

[MY-JAP-MISTRESS]

I woul.d go but dont think I will have mine back on the road in time

[Bernard]

I got a reply concerning Tiptronic cars this morning, unfortunately they cannot test them, I've edited my first post accordingly.
If this makes the meet a no go then fair enough, otherwise we should get a list going.
If anyone has any suggestions as to where to go or what to do in and around Meath then shout, ideally the Dyno should just be part of the day out...

[goz_83]

That's unfortunate alright. However, 6 out of 7 cars at the last meet were manual. If its to go ahead, we should keep it as a small part of the day, so the tip drivers aren't that jealous

[Sebastian]

BOOOO

[Chris_Heilong]

I have contacted them about this and am waiting for a response, but as Bernard has mentioned they probably won't do it because:

"If you have an automatic transmission, things get a little trickier. During the test, the transmission can not shift, or the test results will be ruined. Therefore, an rpm (or speed) must be chosen so that when I stomp on the gas, the transmission will not downshift. In a typical street vehicle, this is around 60 mph with the OD turned off. If you can disable the downshift function, either by removing the linkage or by electronic means, please do so, as the test will be performed over a much wider rpm range and you will obtain more data.

If the transmission shifts during a test (either a MT or an AT) the test will be invalid."

http://www.bristoldyno.com/info/procedure.htm

And if you floor it in D then it does downshift for faster acceleration, not sure about just putting it in 4th or 5th in tip mode but I am sure it is difficult for them to test. Like I said its not impossible as autos are dyne tested all the time, but for this operation I understand the issues.

[Kace]

We have been to Westwood several times in the past. I am almost 100% sure they tested Tips for us in the past, however not sure how good the figures were. Anyone else able to remember ? - CJ ?

[goz_83]

A reputable place that can test tips would be good.

[optical illusion]

Ah yes, that's Martin Treacy's place, was running a mental sierra cossie last year.

[Chris_Heilong]

The guys on FTOOC just said set the revs and speed in 3rd in tip mode and then do the pulls from there. I dont mind if I cant go but I have been itching to do another activity with the car since the last meetup.

[CJ]

I am almost 100% sure they tested Tips for us in the past, however not sure how good the figures were. Anyone else able to remember ? - CJ ?

Indeed they did Kace. Check the old download section for vids of my old GPX (Robs at the time) and GS on the rollers @ Westward 10 years ago.

The problem with getting accurate flywheel figures relates to an issue with torque converter slippage at certain revs, as such, the ATW figure is estimated. They can do it but you won't get real world power figures, unfortunately.

[Chris_Heilong]

I am almost 100% sure they tested Tips for us in the past, however not sure how good the figures were. Anyone else able to remember ? - CJ ?

Indeed they did Kace. Check the old download section for vids of my old GPX (Robs at the time) and GS on the rollers @ Westward 10 years ago.

The problem with getting accurate flywheel figures relates to an issue with torque converter slippage at certain revs, as such, the ATW figure is estimated. They can do it but you won't get real world power figures, unfortunately.

Well I dont know what to say, if the company dont want to do tips then thats completely up to them, all the guys on the UK site just say stick it in third in tip mode and it does the trick. Keep us updated of the plans for the day as I may still be able to do something with you all that day.

[Bernard]

I sent a mail yesterday asking if they can do something to accommodate us and mentioned that the last time we were there they tested Tips.
Hopefully they'll agree, I'll phone tomorrow and find out if they don't reply today.

[Chris_Heilong]

nice one Bernard, your a champ.

[Bernard]

Good news
As long as there are only one or two Tips to be tested we should be fine.
See the reply I got below.

Hi Bernard,

Sorry, I don’t have your number to give you a call....

We prefer not to run the tiptronic cars on a Rolling Road day, however, if its no more than two and your two members want to run them, we can try them after the other cars on the day.

Please be sure when posting up any information on forum etc. that the day is not viewed as open to the public etc. For health and safety reasons and in order to be sure we can facilitate everyone scheduled in for the day, we ask that no more than one driver & one visitor only per car attend.
Please email your list of cars/ attendees when your organised and if you need any additional information or assistance, please call 046 9541622

Many thanks
Joanna

Assuming that that's OK with everyone we can get a list going.
Can you put down what you're driving and if you'll be bringing anyone with you on the day.

There's no problem testing other cars so if you don't have an FTO anymore don't let that stop you.

1. Bernard (+1) FTO GPX Manual
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

[Chris_Heilong]

Nice one

1. Bernard (+1) FTO GPX Manual
2. Chris FTO GX tip
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

maybe you should mention this on the facebook invite also.

[Sebastian]

I am not yet sure on this. Can confirm closer to the date.I will make room if anyone with a TIP FTO wants to put it on the r.r ,NO PROBLEM

1. Bernard (+1) - FTO GPX Manual
2. Chris - FTO GX tip
3. Seb (+1) -W211 E-Class Tip - maybe
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

[goz_83]

1. Bernard (+1) - FTO GPX Manual
2. Chris - FTO GX tip
3. Seb (+1) -W211 E-Class Tip - maybe
4. Goz (+?) GPX Manual
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

[Kace]

Ah go on then - count us in.

1. Bernard (+1) - FTO GPX Manual
2. Chris - FTO GX tip
3. Seb (+1) -W211 E-Class Tip - maybe
4. Goz (+?) GPX Manual
5. Kace (+ young lad) - Quattro
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

[gt94]

1. Bernard (+1) - FTO GPX Manual
2. Chris - FTO GX tip
3. Seb (+1) -W211 E-Class Tip - maybe
4. Goz (+?) GPX Manual
5. Kace (+ young lad) - Quattro
6.GT94 FTO GPVR Manual - maybe
7.
8.
9.
10.

Wont say im going for sure yet funds might be tight between petrol up and back and rr and grub will have to talk to my financial consultant(her in doors)

[Chris_Heilong]

Quattro fun, good stuff kace

[Bernard]

Ah go on then - count us in.

Good man Kace, it'll be good to put a face to the name after 10 years...
BTW, you know it's €100 for 4WD as opposed to the €60 for FWD?

[goz_83]

You won't be buying any dinkies then?

[Kace]

Ah go on then - count us in.

Good man Kace, it'll be good to put a face to the name after 10 years...
BTW, you know it's €100 for 4WD as opposed to the €60 for FWD?

What's another €100 Bernard - may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb

I can watch on as my paltry 170bhp is dwarfed by Mivec