driving on ice...

[mcgon1979]

I wonder if the LSD makes a big difference on ice. I'd say it certainly helps. I had no issues over the last days getting up the hill to my apartments. Saw so many sitting on the limiter, one front wheel spinning, bouncing off the limiter.... It's embarrassing when you have a real loud back box. Young guy there in a sports coup not sure what it was to be honest, sitting on the limiter for 10 minutes, such a boom out of it. If his tyres weren't bald, they are now... well one of them is.
Was gonna go down and help, but someone came out of a house and put to mats under his front wheels for him to get him going... job done... horrible weather. I'd say a lot of people were caught out cause they were "due" new tyres and didn't get round to it, expense and all that.

[CJ]

LSD will help if theres uneven slippage between the front tyres but if they're both spinning, forget it.

Even with AWD and AYC, I was still getting a fair amount of slip during the week, I spotted one or two 4WD jeep type yokes completely loosing it (360 deg spins etc). AWD is definetely superior to 4WD in these conditions.

I had the pleasure (!) of driving a petrol 1.6 Passat (half decent tyres) for a few days during the week, I couldn't get over how easy it was to spin the front wheels in comparison to the FTO, I was getting wheel spin in second and third gear, nuts.

CJ

[TopCat]

... AWD is definetely superior to 4WD in these conditions...

Probably a stupid question, but whats the difference between AWD and 4WD? Is it to do with the diff, ie the AWD sends power to the wheels with grip?

[CJ]

Probably a stupid question, but whats the difference between AWD and 4WD? Is it to do with the diff, ie the AWD sends power to the wheels with grip?

No question is truly stupid ;)

Theres no diff lock or lo/hi range selection with AWD, like full time 4WD, it sends torque to all 4 wheels independantly, however, the latter usually has more options in terms of torque settings (lo/hi) and 2WD settings. AWD is usually controlled electronically whereas 4WD is more of a mechanical process (if you vget my drift).

Full-time 4WD operates as the name suggests. At all times torque is supplied to all four wheels, all of the time. The driver usually has several options available to them which affect the operation of the drivetrain depending on the conditions that are encountered.

In normal operation (such as driving on a bitumen surface) the front and rear axles are split by a differential which allows them to operate at different speeds when required -- for example, when cornering.

In most vehicles there will be the option of 'diff lock'. This locks up the centre differential and restricts any rotational difference between the front and rear axles. It's a feature that is commonly used when offroading to gain maximum traction.

There may also be the option of 'low range'. Usually used in extreme offroad conditions and on steep inclines, this changes the gearing of the drivetrain to provide a torque multiplying effect similar to the lowest gearing on a mountain bike.

Part-time 4WD is the original 4WD system and the most basic.

As with Full time 4WD there are several options available to the driver. In normal conditions the vehicle is driven in two-wheel drive, usually powering only the rear wheels. 4WD mode can be selected either by a separate mechanical lever or by an electronic switching system.

When 4WD is selected, torque is split evenly between the four wheels.

Part time 4WD vehicles tend not to have differentials between the front and rear axles. This limits the use of 4WD to offroad use because use of this feature on bitumen surfaces (where tyres have good traction) can cause excess stress and damage to the drivetrain (often called wind-up).

Most vehicles of this type have the option of 'low range' for extreme off-road conditions.

All-Wheel Drive is in some ways similar to the full-time 4WD system in that it also sends torque to all four wheels constantly.

These systems never have the option to operate in two-wheel drive, and unlike the 4WD systems, the differential between the front and rear axles cannot be locked. The differentials do, however, have ability to limit slippage between the axles if a low traction situation is encountered.

Usually this ability is provided with a differential known as a viscous coupling although more recently a similar outcome has been achieved by using electronically-controlled hydraulic or electro-magnetic 'clutch' systems.

AWD systems also lack the 'low range' feature which is common in most 4WDs.

The AWD system is less effective and more fragile than the 4WD system in a situation where high torque is required. Indeed, the viscous coupling units simply cannot satisfy high torque demands when the vehicle is offroad. AWD vehicles tend to be more 'car' like than obvious offroaders.

[mcgon1979]

the road out my way on saturday... fun times...
actually hard to believe its ireland.

[Myfeckin FTO]

Great pic (would have been a good calendar shot if you'd included the FTO - We're not getting anything like that weather down the West which is a pity really as I'd like to have put the Range Rover Sport to the test.

[TopCat]

Cheers for that CJ.

That's a great pic Mcgon, looks like a class day.