Bought FTO and stuck for insurance. [Solved]

[richardc9052]

no you dont need to have the fto insured to drive it using the policy on the astra. basically as long as the car is not your own, has nct and tax, then you are covered.
Different insurance companies have different needs to be able to use open driving on other cars.. hibernian is the company i used as it doesnt have a minimum age.. places like 123, quinn, axa need you to be over 25.

The only downside to using the extension is that they will not pay for the car you are using the open driving on, namely the fto, but will pay for damage to other cars and property if your involved in an accident.

It is perfectly legal and you can get a printed copy of all the details of the open driving from your insurer if you ask for it.

Just because this country is messed up, which makes it easier for me to get an insurance quote on an R32 2.0 turbo skyline over an ft, should not mean you dont have to drive one.. the route i took to get insured on the fto is my own business and this information is only to help other people.

[Bartpabicz]

Most helpful advice Richardc9052, thanks a bunch for sharing that mate.

[Bartpabicz]

IMPORTANT!


Hi there. I just got an update regarding driving on a different policy (the "Richardc9052 Trick" ). I was on the phone with a Garda officer a second ago and asked him about driving a vehicle which is not normally insured, but is covered with driver's policy (drive another vehicle for up to 30 consecutive days, with owner's consent). Now, everything is as it should, except for the fact that if the car doesn't have an insurance of it's own, and have the disc displayed as well, it WILL be seized by the Gardai when seen unattended on the public road. This "attended" part not neccesarily have to apply either, as you simply will be able to explain yourself in person when approached by Garda officer. If they stick to the rules of law, they WILL seize your car.


So much for one of the ways to drive insured high-performance car in this country.

[Bartpabicz]

...and a side note here as well. I have been on the phone with Quinn. They have openly refused to insure me as new business, and such fact has been recorded on file. Therefore, taking out a policy on Astra and then moving on to FTO would cause Quinn to refuse to transfer the insurance to the new car as I've been advised Quinn doesn't insure these vehicles. Apparently Terms & Conditions have changed very recently.


I'm speechless.

[richardc9052]

IMPORTANT!


Hi there. I just got an update regarding driving on a different policy (the "Richardc9052 Trick" ). I was on the phone with a Garda officer a second ago and asked him about driving a vehicle which is not normally insured, but is covered with driver's policy (drive another vehicle for up to 30 consecutive days, with owner's consent). Now, everything is as it should, except for the fact that if the car doesn't have an insurance of it's own, and have the disc displayed as well, it WILL be seized by the Gardai when seen unattended on the public road. This "attended" part not neccesarily have to apply either, as you simply will be able to explain yourself in person when approached by Garda officer. If they stick to the rules of law, they WILL seize your car.


So much for one of the ways to drive insured high-performance car in this country.

Thats interesting.. my local garda when i was living in limerick said that becaue i would have the cert showing i was infact insured, the most i could have been done for was not having a disc shown/in view - which is €60.. they cant sieze it if you have proof of insurance .. the only reason they can seize it is either safety/warrant/ revenue.. safety being unsafe for road, warrant for if youve been a bad boy and garda want to strip it for a search/ if it was bought with money earnt through crime.. revenue for not paying tax / vrt or for using an untaxed fuel.. not having a disc in show does not mean your not insured though.. same as not having a tax disc in display, they will check pulse and see you have infact got tax, but may still fine you for not having your disc in the window..

[richardc9052]

ps i know this from personal experience also.. myself and 2 friends where arrested at a cruise because the driver didnt have an insurance cert/disc and they suspected it was stolen.. also had no nct.. they let us go after a thorough check of the car and how safe it was, checked it on pulse and we where all clean as was the car.. he produced his insurance within 10 days and he got a 60 fine for not having disc in the window and he got a fine for not having tax(was only out by a week or two) but all in all... it was grand

[Bernard]

myself and 2 friends where arrested at a cruise.... but all in all... it was grand

Personally I wouldn't call being arrested grand, whether or not you were let go soon after doesn't make it OK.
I have all my discs up to date and in the window for all to see, I prefer it like that to keeping my fingers crossed hoping the Gardaí are understanding.

[richardc9052]

it was grand because i wasnt the driver and it wasnt my fault... and we only got arrested because he had no proof of insurance what so ever and thought it was stolen - he was under his mothers insurance so want in his name.. but if he had a cert it would have been fine.. i got stopped at checkpoints multiple times and it never caused a problem cos i had tax, nct and the insurance cert. i understand that people dont get it, but your insured by doing this, just wont get money for your car in a crash, but everyone else would get paid.. they make sure you understand that

[Bartpabicz]

Everything you said Richard is true, except for one thing - read the explanation of Driving Other Car benefit:

"Driving other cars covers Insured to drive other cars for Third Party only cover once they have the owner's permission".


Driving is the word you should concentrate on. Once you're driving, you're covered. The very moment you step out of the vehicle - it's not. In other words, if the car parked on the street would be involved in a collision or other accident, the cover is not valid.

-> Also, Richard, do you have trouble paying your tax if your car is not insured? As far as I know the motor tax office requires you to provide them with insurance details?

I was on the phone with gardai again (third time) to make sure what the story is. Guess what - third garda, third opinion. First one told me that the uninsured car (in their database) would be seized. Second, that I should contact the Insurance company as they are the ones "making the rules" in regard to insurance. Third one said car "always have to be insured". And that includes parked vehicles. Fine for not having an insurance on the vehicle is 120 quid. Fine - not seizure. When I asked about the source where I can find regulations regarding this matter I have been eloquently advised to search "somewhere on the Internet". No comment on that.

Generally speaking, you are covered while DOC, but your precious FTO is not only not covered for fire/theft/accidental damage, but also, if it would be parked in a wrong/illegal spot and somebody would trip over it's bumper and fall from a cliff to their death as a result, the car's owner would be held responsible. Think about it Richard, is the risk really worth it...?

[Bartpabicz]

This is what I found under ROAD TRAFFIC ACT, 1961.


56.—(1) A person (in this subsection referred to as the user) shall not use in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle unless either a vehicle insurer, a vehicle guarantor or an exempted person would be liable for injury caused by the negligent use of the vehicle by him at that time or there is in force at that time either— [...]


Any thoughts in this "use" part?

[Dave]

Just reading through the posts, using DOC as a method of insuring your FTO isn't the best move in the world, as Bart said, the car is not insured, only the driver, so if the car were stolen or burned out, you get nothing!! Also, you do need a valid insurance policy number to tax your car. If you've registered your car in someone else's name, and then use the DOC on your insurance to tax it, surely that's not valid??

I'd agree with CJ, lesson to be learned, always check insurance quotes before you purchase a car, I had a supercharged Zed, but before I bought it I confirmed with my existing insurer that they would cover the car and all the modifications, I did pay for the privelage though.

In short, if the only quote you're getting is €1K+ then that is your only real option, alternatively, sell the FTO and buy something that is easier to insure.

[richardc9052]

Just reading through the posts, using DOC as a method of insuring your FTO isn't the best move in the world, as Bart said, the car is not insured, only the driver, so if the car were stolen or burned out, you get nothing!! Also, you do need a valid insurance policy number to tax your car. If you've registered your car in someone else's name, and then use the DOC on your insurance to tax it, surely that's not valid??

I'd agree with CJ, lesson to be learned, always check insurance quotes before you purchase a car, I had a supercharged Zed, but before I bought it I confirmed with my existing insurer that they would cover the car and all the modifications, I did pay for the privelage though.

In short, if the only quote you're getting is €1K+ then that is your only real option, alternatively, sell the FTO and buy something that is easier to insure.

I never had to tax it so i cant comment on that, and yep i was fully aware that the car wasnt covered.. and that was the risk i took..

@ OP: as i have just noticed you got a quote for 1200 i think was it? why dont you just take that offer and be done with it? if i had got an offer like that i would have.. the cheapest offer i got was 3500

[Bartpabicz]

It seems insuring FTO as-is might be the only option left due to these facts facts:


1. When paying motor tax, you have to provide VRO with your insurance details
2. When driving FTO under "Driving Other Cars", and once car is left unattended on a public road, owner is personally liable against any public liability suits (handbrake fault and car rolling onto somebody/accidental fire and other low-probability occurences). At this point, as FTO can't be registered on by somebody living at the same address for the DOC to kick in, it's a matter of conscience and/or getting your friend/family member/partner to agree to take such responsibilty, however low the probability of such things actually happening may be.
3. Also Gardai >may< seize your vehicle as uninsured/abandoned car - I wrote a letter to superintendent in my district garda station and sent it today, and will await reply in writing. I'll let you know as soon as I find out.



As for 1300 insurance offered to me, once you'd be paying 500-600 for the past years you WOULD feel that this is too much to pay:) And yes, I already am looking at different options than driving an FTO altogether, however painful such thought is...

[Dragonheart]

Yes you have to provide insurance details when you pay tax, cant remember if you have to when paying it online but I think you do. I know on the form you fill out and bring in yourself you give insurance details, and NCT details as well.

[Bartpabicz]

Alright, it seems then there's no way to skip this step as paying online requires giving insurance details.

[optical illusion]

Insurance policy number needed online.

[ottostreet]

Word of advice, when using the online thing with Quinn, if you type in the registration number, it will (on most FTO's I know of) come up as a DE3A import. While this is true, it is also a GPX/GPvR what-have-you.

After typing in your reg, select a GPX from the drop down list, and voila....quote!

My insurance is 850 euro quote at 23 years old on a GPvR with 4 years NCB

[Bartpabicz]

Hello again,


My fighting days with insurance are finally over. I did as Ottostreet has advised, but let me explain in more detail.

1. I went to Quinn Insurance website to get online quote. If you put in reg number the FTO will come up as "DE3A import" (at least that was what happened with 4 different FTOs I tried, GPX, GX, GPvR). You simply manually change car model to the particular one you want to insure and proceed with the rest of information. The only thing is I couldn't get quote for GX and GPvR - system simply could not provide mith a quote at that time and said I should contact their helpline.
2. I chose GPX form model list and it quoted me at roughly 980 euro for TPTF, with no additional covers/protections/etc. The funny thing is, insurance premium can vary by up to 25% (maybe more) depending on your OCCUPATION, even though you check the ASSUMPTIONS box, which states that car will be used for pleasure/private use. Maybe driving to/from/during work is what matters so much when it comes to calculating premiums - but then, why am I being quoted the MOST out of about 20 different professions, with me being actually unemployed Maybe they presume I'd be driving more since I have more time on my hands? Do ye reckon I should contact the insurance ombudsman/other authority to ask if it's right?
3. Thirdly, as for the "richardc9052 trick" (see post listed on Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:57 pm and later on Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:48 pm, all posted by richardc9052 for more details).
I was called by a sergeant from Garda Station today (I sent a letter on Thursday I think, asking if it's legal to park a car on public road with no insurance, but with NCT and Tax). I will get proper answer in writing later on this week, but it seems that:

According to Section 56 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961: "A person shall not use in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle unless either a vehicle insurer, a vehicle guarantor or an exempted person would be liable for injury caused by the negligent use of the vehicle by him at that time".

And to clarify that "use" part,

according to section 3 of the same act, "“use”, in relation to a vehicle, includes park, and cognate words shall be construed accordingly".

In other words, if you have the Driving Other Cars (DOC) option on your policy, you can drive other people's uninsured, taxed, nct'd cars with their consent (as long as car doesn't belong to you or any other person registered at the same address as you), but

a) you can only drive from point A to point B, both not being public roads where you'd be parking the car. You are covered only while driving.
b) both you and the car's owner can get fined for not displaying the insurance disc.

that's the law. It seems

Once I get a reply from Gardai, and if it turns out I got something wrong, I'll update this post. Thanks to everyone for their contribution, guidance and help in getting my insurance sorted.

Thanks a lot!

P.S. And if somebody could give me an opinion on my question in point 2, I'd be grateful.

[walshs3]

Try ringin these guys http://www.arachas.ie/2010a/contact.htm (phone details are in the link). I am currently insured with them through allianz. They are also brokers by the way.

[Bartpabicz]

that's the first time I hear about this company. I already have insurance with Quinn, but I just called them and asked for a quote - they quoted me 790 euros! With less excess, full comprehensive, OPEN policy with breakdown cover, bonus protection and windscreen cover. That's a major "WOW"!

Thanks Walshs3, you just saved me a good few euros!

[walshs3]

No bothers,out of curiosity who did they insure you with or did they tell you?

[Bartpabicz]

that was Allianz. I've been with them before and was happy with service, so... happy days indeed!