A crash, a claim, a nightmare....

[mcgon1979]

I must be brief as I am sick talking about this already. What a nightmare....
yesterday 630am, wet drizzle. I am moving at 40kph andl eaving adequate 2 car space in front of me in case I have to brake.
Lady cuts into this small gap thus robbing my braking space, I let off to make some space, but less than 3 seconds after she pulled into the small gap in front she had to SLAM on. I mean emergency braking style. My anti lock kicked in and I tapped her at about 5 or 10 kph.
no visible damage to her. my bumper is cracked behind the scenes. no strutural damage. no slam bar damage. no fan damage. just cosmetic. new bumper and possibly bonnet adjustment as its sitting not flush with one wing. Anyway I was devastated. but after talking to 3 professionals its all ok and no serious damage, nothing strutural and just cosmetic. still. Im looking at 2k.
other car had absolutely no visible damage. we swapped details.
Iget a call later from the lady telling me she had engine problems after the accident (a rear bumper tap!!!!). she said she is offering me the option to pay cash!! rather than use my insurance. yeah right. she said she has an estimate for me etc. wtf? engine problems? because I barely tipped her rear bumper?

anyway I have 5 years (maximum) no claims and its protected. I rang quinn and they said if there is a claim my no claims is fone and protected. but that my policy will still go UP!!! WTF? hang on, hang on! why will my policy rise if I have a protected no claims discount. she said the protection just protects your "no claims". your policy will still rise after any claim on your policy!!! WHAT?!?!? why?! why do people protect then? I'll have to change insurers and everyone else wanted 2500euro for the FTO fully comp. quinn were 800. so now its gonna rise? has anyone had this happen. She said it won't be as much as if I had not protected my no claims but that it will rise... Im sick.

this lady is defo trying to screw me, so I have no choice but to take the insurance route. The new bumper and work will cost money too as I want it done properly in reputable place to keep the car in perfect condition. (btw is there nay issue getting facelift bumpers? they are pricing all the parts for me today).

If this lady is adamant on getting her engine fixed cause of my rear bumper tap, then I am gonna lose my no claims protection anyways, so may as well get the bumper fixed on the insurance and get a really good job done. the best that can be done.

nightmare lads. I know I know. could have been worse, alot worse. I think my pride is hurt most. I have never had a crash in 6 years driving and considered myself a safe responsible driver. I guess it happens to everyone. Wrote a letter to Quinn explaining the circumstances and also stated that I did not feel I could accept liability because this person effectively stole my stopping gap and immediately braked. Might not do any difference as generally 99% of the time the driver who rear ends is in the wrong, but I really feel ahrd done by here. nothing I could do at all to prevent this. Its not like I was tailgating etc. It was wet and drizzly and I was tipping along and she just dived into the gap and then HIT the brakes.


any advice on any aspects of this appreciated. especially the availability of facelift bumper, and also the premium rise even though I have no claims protection.

[Myfeckin FTO]

Sorry to hear about this McGon - just my toupence worth but if this "lady" is claiming against you for engine damage then I suggest you ask her to bring it into a reliable garage (perhaps where you service your own car) and ask them to check to see if the accident was in any way responsible for her "engine damage". The only possible way I can see how there would be perceived damage to the engine from a light tap to the rear is if her exhaust was damaged from the collision.

Other option is to take no responsibility for the accident and claim that the act of cuttting you up (mention dangerous driving) caused the accident.

Just on the FTO side of things - this could give you the opportunity to source a facelift DC front and change the fog lights and indicators and get it covered by insurance. If you prefer to stay with the standard facelift front funky sell them for 250GBP - http://www.jdmperformance.co.uk/item_de ... =444002250

[stevec]

Sorry to hear that - these type of people make my blood boil
If the claim is for more than a set amount - prob 1k - then the insurers normally send an assesor to inspect the damage. I'd say they'd soon pick up whether a bumper tap caused damage to her engine.
Were there any witnesses? cameras maybe?
Make sure to write down every detail that you can remember and send it to insurer.
As for the policy going up - sounds like you were sold the no-claims protection under false pretenses (sp.) AKA fraud!. email the insurance ombudsman about it (wait till after the claim is settled tho - dont want to p1ss them off before they pay up).
Also beware of the nice lady coming back in a month with a sore neck after she talks to a brief.
Best of luck - hope it works out for you.

[DirtyLopez]

female dog...

[Wildhound]

That's the pits! I hope awful things happen to that cow.

[mcgon1979]

thanks for your replies guys... and support. It helps alot.

Firstly, the bumper. I want it completely standard so don't really wanna buy a fibre glass copy. I want the mitsu one if possible. I'm sure one can be sourced somewhere. It held up very well to the light smack, but the retaining brackets broke off the inside of the bumper etc so best to replace it then try a plastic glue style patch up. Its going through insurance anyway so cost is not an issue.

Secondly, SteveV... This is an excellent point and one I have the MOST problem with.... I rang the Insurance Ombusman Information line just now. The guy says it sounds totally wrong and they are effectively "loading" me for a claim even though I have my maximum no claims intact. He said it does not sound right at all and he has not heard it before. He said your premiums rise on the basis of your no claims bonus. If that has not changed they are loading you, and this is not impossible but highly unlikley unless it was a serious personal injury claim. For a small third party bumper type damage he would be very surprised. He said he cannot do anything though until I receive the renewal. He also said there is no point mentioning it to Quinn either until I have the renewal in my hand.
Anyway I will have to wait till February 2008 and ring them back. find out the renewal. If it has doubled etc or gone up 80% I can then go to the ombudsman and argue that my full no claims is intact but I am being loaded regardless due to a minor claim, even though I paid an extra premium to protected my no claims. We will wait and see....

Yeah the woman handling the claim for me is really sound. She will send an assessor out to see what 'engine problems' were called by a very light rear bumper impact. She rang the claimant 3 times but cannot get her yet. She will ring me as soon as she gets her version of events and finds out exactly what this "estimate for engine problems" is based on. cool.

[mcgon1979]

also... this is from a different Irish insurer... this is what I thought my "full protection" did


Q.If I make a claim, what will happen to my premium next year?

A. There are 4 possible situations depending on the type of policy you have –
i) You may lose all your No Claim Discount and your premium will more than double.
ii) You may have a policy where your No Claim Discount is reduced to a 2 or 3 year discount. In that case, your premium will increase by at least 50% and sometimes much more.
iii) You may have a policy with a fully protected No Claim Discount in which case the claim will not affect your premium
iv) You may have a policy with a partially protected No Claim Discount in which case, if the claim is small (say, under €3,900), it will not affect your premium

[CJ]

Ggon, you're sounding a bit more positive now which is good

Accidents happen and they are a pain in the ass, this one will eventually blow over. Stick to your guns re this engine damage business, sounds like someone trying to pull a fast one. Let the insurance co worry about all of the nitty gritty, all you need to do is write a comprehensive report as to the incident witnessed from your perspective.

A new facelift bumper costs approx 500 quid, I purchased on from Modo in Finglas for similar money about 2 years ago. You'll most likely need a set of bumper retaining brackets and plastic clips to hold the bumper in place. Sounds to me that the bonnet might be repairable, if theres any doubt then make sure a new one is put in.

CJ

[mcgon1979]

cool thanks for the advice CJ. Yeah I made claer to AJK Motors in lusk, that if it needs anything... wings, bonnet, anything. I want it new. no expense like. The bonnet is sitting like 2mm higher than flush on one side. so not sure if it is fixable or what but I'll make sure I tell them again, its gotta be perfect even if it requires a new one.

Im sticking to my guns, and they will check out your ones car and let me know. I'll let you all know then what the craic.

The thing Im most disappointed about is the fact that my "protected no claims" will not prevent a premium hike. This seems to vary from company to company and is probably in the small print. Some irish companies will not increase your premium if you have FULL (not partial) no claims.
I note that the RAC in the UK say that even if you have "full protected no claims" that your premium itself can increase if there is a claim or conviction.
Unfortunately I'll just have to wait till february. see how much it is of an increase and take if from there. Its 850 now, so if it was 1k. I would not mind, but if its like 1500, I'll consult the ombudsman.


yeah deffo abut more cheery once I heard it was nothing to worry about from the pro's. no seriosu damage just cosmetic etc. I was a bit in shock I think too.

[optical illusion]

OMG mcgon my blood is boiling!!! This b***h is quite obviously taking the mick out of you. I definitely suggest the same as stevec - straight to a reliable garage and get a written report on if the engine problem was due to the tap. My guess is it wasn't, she's just trying to pull a fast one on you. If she refuses to bring in the car then you know somethings definitely up.

You know if you mention your solicitor will be in contact with her it may quieten her...

This is really p**sing me off, I hate when good people get done for stuff like this, especially when you clearly weren't in the wrong...

You know if you get this report and we are proven right, it wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court. Maybe you should threaten her with this too, and inform her it will be a long and lengthy process to her losing and paying your legal fees...

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mcgon1979]

Heres a laugh for you's... Got the price of the bumper and brackets today...

670euro for the original facelift bumper
355euro for the rear retaining bracket and frame for the bumper.

Sweet.

1000euro already. no labour or paint etc

ah well... he asked me how much the car was worth because if the work approach's 60% of the value of the car it can get risky. The insurers might opt to scrap it.

I said... eh.... its insured for 12k and worth at bare minimum 10k. 1999 mint GPvR. He said "ah grand, thats should cover it no problems"

I should hope so....

[mcgon1979]

UPDATE -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Ok, I just spoke to my Quinn claim handler...
You will recall that the 'lady' I tapped rang me to say she had a garage estimate and she was giving me the choice to settle it myself rather than use my insurance. I didn't get back to her, I just reported it all to my insurance and told them to contact her etc.
Anyways.... wait for this....

My claim handler told me she spoke to the woman. The woman has a bill for 1048 for car repairs, plus she has (wait for it...) a sore back. Her passenger also has a swollen knee!!!!

I CANNOT believe this. I have heard about it before of course, but I cannot believe people do this. I feel sick. Its absolutely DISGUSTING. How can someone do that? I really hope there is KARMA. I really do.

Im alsmost sure the gardai asked "are there any injuries" at the time and she said "no" so did I. She has a sore back? she was quick enough to jump into my passenger seat for my details though. WTF? Im stunned lads. Maybe Ishould of just paid her 1000euro outside insurance? there was no mention of 'injuries' when she offered to setle out of insurance. now she suddenly has a sore back and her passenger a swollen knee. Surely the insurance companies are onto this?! Surely they ask "why didn't you call us immediately?" "Did you go to hospital/doctor immediately?" "Did you tell gardai". Surely the insurers are above this sort of crap. This is why you all pay high insurance by the way. A bumper tip end sup costing 10k because someone says they have a sore knee. I cannot bring myself to wish bad things to this person, but I truly hope "what goes around comes around" is true...

very disappointed. not sure if this will help ramp up my premium. but I think so. A bumper fix is one thing, but a personal injury claim is another thing.

Sorry for going on. Just stunned. needed to let it out.

[stevec]

May it rain cat sh1t on her and mey she be infested with the fleas of 1000 camels...

Get her address and take a pic of her next week trying to pick up the €2 coin that you're going to superglue to her doorstep. Sore back my a4se - what'd I tell ya.

[mcgon1979]

May it rain cat sh1t on her and mey she be infested with the fleas of 1000 camels...

Get her address and take a pic of her next week trying to pick up the €2 coin that you're going to superglue to her doorstep. Sore back my a4se - what'd I tell ya.

just cannot believe it. She seemed like a professional woman in her 30s. not the kind of person I would associate with insurance fraud. sickened. All I can do is leave it to the Insurers. Surely they must be well on the ball witht his type of crap. and will turn it around.

[Dragonheart]

Ah christ thats a pure rip off!! Hope it works out for you, no doubt insurers and the likes are well aware of these things happening, and I'm sure it'll be sorted. As far as I know if she doesnt have a doctor's report and stuff to say how the 'injury' was caused or how long they've been there she wont have anything. Sure anyone could say what they like and sue, but with no evidence then they're not going to get very far!!

[Myfeckin FTO]

My brother had a similar story - lightly tapped a taxi driver at a set of traffic lights in Limerick and when he got out to speak to yer man the taxi driver refused to move from his car claiming he had a broken back.

Several year later and the taxi driver has milked it for all its worth - didn't have to work for a few years and took the insurance company to the cleaners. The car just needed its rear bumper replaced. This is what I hate most about Ireland - there are too many people out there that are more than prepared to pull this sh1te.

I had a van brake heavily in front of me in Shannon one morning for absolutely no reason except he wanted me to run into the back of him.
Found out a few weeks later the same guy (traveller) had pulled this stunt on several other people and had only been found out cause he got too greedy.

[mcgon1979]

I told a few friends and they all said the same thing MFFTO. "This is what I hate about Ireland"... Seems its the done thing over here. any sort of a tap = pay day. no morals.

[Sebastian]

this is why insurrance here its a ripoff . because of all those stupid claims .
crazy greedy people .

[steelroe]

You will most likely find your insurance company will pay out regardless of what you tell them. Insurance fraud is rife in this country. My brother had a nigerian lady try a similar think a few months back and as soon as he phoned the cops she jumped in her "damaged car" and took off

[Muad_dib77]

All you can do is leave it with the insurace mate - this lady sounds like she's a bad driver and a bad person.

I'd be furious, and be tempted to sort something out...but alas you should not - nay nay .. things would only get worse..

[mcgon1979]

All you can do is leave it with the insurace mate - this lady sounds like she's a bad driver and a bad person.

I'd be furious, and be tempted to sort something out...but alas you should not - nay nay .. things would only get worse..

ah yeah Maud, I am FURIOUS! I am not gonna try and "sort something out" though... all I did was sent a letter to the Irish Insurance Federation informing them of my distaste with the current situation and what I see as a fraudulent personal injury claim. Just sent them my statement and the information about the offer to settle it between ourselves and now 4 days on the first mention of injuries to both passengers...

I also sent a copy to Quinn. I told them I understand it is a mater for them to adjudge but felt it neccessary and appropriate to inform them of my view on the situation. No harm in that.

[stevec]

Unfortunately back injuries are almost impossible to medically prove or disprove - x-rays etc do not show what the problem is.
I watched a documentry a while back about insurance scammers in the UK where they went and videoed people mowing the lawn / lifting things / horse riding / whatever when they were supposedly injured so badly that they couldn't work..
The insurance companies here take the view that a drawn out court battle with sol / barrister fees etc will cost more that paying out to the fraudster.
Sad and unjust but true - and the honest joe's end up paying for it all through higher premiums.

This really stinks.

[Gwyn]

mcgon - can't sympathise enough - I actually felt a bit queasy reading the threads here - one minute the world is great, the next your pride and joy is damaged, you're talking to police, worrying about premiums, and having to deal with scummers with no scruples who will happily rip you off.........sucks.

You know how this will look to others too, the FTO driver, boy racer type rear ending the 30 something professional woman. I can only say what I would do on this case - and that is give her f*ck all. My only concern is that she will approach your insurance company for you. That said - give her nothing. Get the car to your mechanic / talk to the ombudsman again on protocol re doctors reports etc etc - have they even been ?? Stick to your guns if at all possible and keep the wallet in your pocket - and remember that none of this is down to you.........

Let us know how you get on

[mcgon1979]

Cheers Gwyn... It seems when I decided not to pay 1048euro for "engine problems" to her, that her "back injury" and her passengers "swollen knee" suddenly materialized.

No way I was paying the 'estimate' she received of 1,048euro to fix unspecified engine problems that my small tap on the rear bumper caused her.

An assessor from Quinn just came to see my car. took some notes. only damage is to bumper. and bonnet sitting slightly proud of the wings. nothing else. so they will probably approve a new bumper.

I would love to be a fly on the wall when the assessor looks at how her "unmarked rear bumper" caused engine problems of 1,048euro. Sure we'll see.

She has been asked to submit a statement to Quinn outlining what happened and how her injuries developed etc. I'll keep you all in the loop. Its good to get it off my chest or I'd be going bananas.
your right though, people will think young lad ( 28 ) in FTO. obviously speeding. obviously a boy racer etc etc. its endless. She was probably told by her family or friends "oh really, a guy in a white sports car, sure he must have loads of money, ask him for money, if not clean him out. they will think he was speeding".
Maximum no claims and 7 years claims free, accident free driving. not so much a s aparking ticket to my name. now a nice black mark from this womans broken back.

thanks for the support lads and ladies. It helps keep me sane.

[d_andrews78]

I would suggest that you try and get hold of as much of the documentation as you can, as a five years ago I hit a drunk as he stepped out from behind a van, Insurance company paid out 18k out of court, even with the police on my side on the case. No charges or blame was pointed in my direction.
But 2 years after the incident I was being sued for personal injury to the fecker, due to me having the doc's from insurance company and police report the case never went anywhere, as there basis was that I was a young fella out on the town, had a few drinks in me.
First thing I did when the cops arrived I was tested, if I was drunk think they might of charged me at the time.
In the end he was hit for legal fees and a small amount of damages to me as it was seen as deformation of my name.
It also turns out I was the 3rd person that had clipped him in a rather short period of time, but I was the only one that near killed him and stopped to help.
A cop actually asked why I'd stopped? most people would of just drove on!

Good Luck with the case, mate.

Karma will get to these chancers in the end. Some day that engine problem will occure at a railway crossing, and back pains and swollen knees are what they will be praying for.