Mivec Controller Settings

[ZiNTiS]

Hello guys ! i have a problem :/ i have on my FTO a FIELD Boxer Vtec / Mivec & Fuel controller and i dont know how to use it and what is the settings for fuel controller SFC Please help me to have the right settings.

[goz_83]

Can you just disconnect it?

I personally think its a bad idea to use these controllers. I have one and never installed it. Glad i didn't, because they just look tacky.

[mivecrx]

Don't be shy and say HELLOhttp://www.fto-ireland.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=12

Using a vtec/mivec controller to alter the mivec engagement time is useless and will do nothing only bad. It alters the crossover point without changing the ignition timing to match.

However, using this to set your AFR(air fuel ratio) can work well, usually works best if you have an upgraded exhaust system and induction/ throttle body setup. No real way to do this unless you have a dyno and you are a car tuner or someone who really likes to learn about it.

[ZiNTiS]

Thanks for your fast reply guys
i have HKS exhaust system on it and the HKS air filter
on the dyno they want 350 Euro for setting on the system its that normal price ?
if i will disconnect it it will damage my car ?
and when i start my car it turns off every time i have to press the gas pedal to keep it on until it warms
i think the problem comes from the FIELD Boxer Vtec / Mivec & Fuel controller

[mivecrx]

Thanks for your fast reply guys
i have HKS exhaust system on it and the HKS air filter
on the dyno they want 350 Euro for setting on the system its that normal price ?
if i will disconnect it it will damage my car ?
and when i start my car it turns off every time i have to press the gas pedal to keep it on until it warms
i think the problem comes from the FIELD Boxer Vtec / Mivec & Fuel controller

Are you in Ireland?
No it won't damage your car if you disconnect it.
The problem with your car turning off should have nothing to do with the controller, it probably is a separate problem like faulty tps or iacv.

Edit: Just seen in your welcome thread that your from Cyprus, I don't know how much it cost there to have the controller setup. €350 is allot, it would cost about €180-250max here.

[ZiNTiS]

I think better is to remove the controller it will damage my car .

[goz_83]

Remove the controller if you can. When you start the car, where does the rev needle sit? Sometimes all you need to do is make a slight adjustment to the mixture. There is a little cross head valve at the top right hand corner of the plenum. Start the engine and adjust this until the needle is sitting at 800-900rpm. Sometimes it's adjusted too low and the engine needs to be running for a while before it runs smoothly.

[ZiNTiS]

Remove the controller if you can. When you start the car, where does the rev needle sit? Sometimes all you need to do is make a slight adjustment to the mixture. There is a little cross head valve at the top right hand corner of the plenum. Start the engine and adjust this until the needle is sitting at 800-900rpm. Sometimes it's adjusted too low and the engine needs to be running for a while before it runs smoothly.

When i start the car the needle stops at 500-600 rpm when gets warmer.
Sometimes when i ride and press the clutch to change gears from first to second the car shuts down .
And when i turn the steering wheel full and i go rear the rpm gets low and the car shuts down again .
Necessarily i press the gas pedal for high rpm to dont shut down.The bad thing is i lose more fuel when i do this .
Tomorrow i will adjust the rpm like you said and the folding mirrors and see what happens

[goz_83]

Yes, adjust the screw and you will hear the engine getting stronger. Just dont over do it.

If that does not solve your problem, I would next look at cleaning, or replacing the stepper motor. Its located in the same area as the valve i mentioned. Search here for more info on stepper motors.

[brccrx]

Hi, leave that controller as it is, just dont use it.

If U remove it U'll have to fix Your wiring loom as some wires been split to terminate the signals that ECU gets from sensors as its a form of piggy back controller.
Ive Neo in my car that came mapped when i got the car, ive just done full reset of all settings and put it aside in the car so i dont have to mess with the loom to re join it.

As mivecrx say this controller is useful for getting that tiny bit more from upgrades that U have but if U dont have an access to dyno just leave it as it is or get an Evoscan and along with Open Port 2 to replace the stationary dyno, that will also help U to set the car as it should be if U do a lot of home work.

Also changing the Mivec crossover is very good idea but only if U get more mods on board. When i had only decat, stainless steel cat back, panel filter in the stock air box and 64mm throttle body, by the power curve appropriate Mivec engaging point on my FTO has moved from 5500 to around 5200. Ive no power steering as well and generally the car is stage one light weight-ed
Im not sure did 4.6 FD had anything to deal with it to but i doubt that, but now with stainless steel down pipes it could be different again.
When ive the hybrid box installed and car back on the road i'll dyno it again.

Aidan, do You think that when U trigger the Mivec ground point manually ECU doesn't trigger Mivec maps? I think It does as most of the functions on the car is controlled by applying the ground by the ECU (Unless its a sensor then its rather 5V signal send trough it). Why would Mivec solenoids control and Mivec maps been separated to two different trigger signals lol.

[ZiNTiS]

i will leave that controller as it is and i have to learn how fuel mapping works.
i adjusted the rpm from the engine and the controller changed it again :/
before i adjust the rpm i started the car and it was in 1000-1200rpm for cold start i thought the problem solved it self
but later when i started it up again it turned off again
i have to change settings on fuel mapping to get higher rpm ?

[mivecrx]

Aidan, do You think that when U trigger the Mivec ground point manually ECU doesn't trigger Mivec maps? I think It does as most of the functions on the car is controlled by applying the ground by the ECU (Unless its a sensor then its rather 5V signal send trough it). Why would Mivec solenoids control and Mivec maps been separated to two different trigger signals lol.

When you trigger it manually the mivec maps will engage with the solenoids. So you think that if you change the crossover point that the mivec map will activate and the timing and fueling will be right?

It's a bad idea to change the crossover point without having a way of correcting the ignition timing and fuel, neo or field controller can't do both. Really it can only change the afr.

[brccrx]

Aidan, do You think that when U trigger the Mivec ground point manually ECU doesn't trigger Mivec maps? I think It does as most of the functions on the car is controlled by applying the ground by the ECU (Unless its a sensor then its rather 5V signal send trough it). Why would Mivec solenoids control and Mivec maps been separated to two different trigger signals lol.

When you trigger it manually the mivec maps will engage with the solenoids. So you think that if you change the crossover point that the mivec map will activate and the timing and fueling will be right?

It's a bad idea to change the crossover point without having a way of correcting the ignition timing and fuel, neo or field controller can't do both. Really it can only change the afr.

Yes, i think thats the case with Mivec, ive no idea how Honda did it on Vtecs as the solenoid is controlled by positive not by the ground

Think of it this way: the cams has to switch over and the maps (ignition and fuel maps) has to kick in same time, its not the case that the maps trigger the solenoid if ya get me. It has to be one control point to avoid damage in case if the Mivec worked and ECU didnt swith to Mivec maps.

i will leave that controller as it is and i have to learn how fuel mapping works.
i adjusted the rpm from the engine and the controller changed it again :/
before i adjust the rpm i started the car and it was in 1000-1200rpm for cold start i thought the problem solved it self
but later when i started it up again it turned off again
i have to change settings on fuel mapping to get higher rpm ?

Its not the controller that does try to set the idle back down its Your ECU. U probably adjust the throttle position screw instead of the screw on the top of the throttle body?

[mivecrx]

Yes, i think thats the case with Mivec, ive no idea how Honda did it on Vtecs as the solenoid is controlled by positive not by the ground

Think of it this way: the cams has to switch over and the maps (ignition and fuel maps) has to kick in same time, its not the case that the maps trigger the solenoid if ya get me. It has to be one control point to avoid damage in case if the Mivec worked and ECU didnt swith to Mivec maps.

Them ignition and fuel maps are for 5500rpm to 8500rpm when the solenoid is ground, any change and the car needs to be mapped(ignition and fuel). You think if you permanently had the solenoid ground then the car would switch over to mivec maps and run perfect from 0rpm to 8500rpm?

[brccrx]

Them ignition and fuel maps are for 5500rpm to 8500rpm when the solenoid is ground, any change and the car needs to be mapped(ignition and fuel). You think if you permanently had the solenoid ground then the car would switch over to mivec maps and run perfect from 0rpm to 8500rpm?

If U could read my comments regarding the matter we talk about with understanding em it would save me wrecking my keyboard (and its an expensive one haha)

You must remember that when ive tried ZR ECU on RS cams on my 4G92 and even doe the Mivec activated at 5200 rpm and i had wrong lower lobe for ZR brain, it did work, and i had AFR display mounted in the dash that time to see whats going on.
See theres more in that than maps, MAP sensor is a good example

The ECU is able to self tweak the AFR and ignition angle to keep up with small changes, but not that radical like U suggesting, running Mivec grounded from 0 rpm

Doing the modifications to the engine (exhaust and intake related) U actually do two things, adding power and torque and (or) move the power and torque bands.

Curves now runs different and the engine is breathing better (easier) so if ya run a dyno check it will tell ya do what can You do, in my case looking at the graph u clearly could see that the curves dip at about 5150-5250 with all the bits that were on the car at that time, till around 5500 when the Mivec "kick in".

U could try to map this out but with the controller but it only give the option of adjusting the AFR that could be not enough or switch the Mivec bit lower then dyno check again how did ya go.

[mivecrx]

I can't believe you think that a zr Ecu will run an rs engine with no problem, that's crazy. I had a zr before that had rs cams fitted and still using zr ecu, you should have seen the damage done to that engine. Zero compression due to melted piston(running lean).

Yes all ecus will self adjust to the slightest degree but not to auto map itself when you change the crossover point lol. That will do more bad than good, even a fuel controller like a neo isn't all that great as it can only map in blocks of 8( 0-8000rpm) unlike a fully adjustable ecu.

[brccrx]

I can't believe you think that a zr Ecu will run an rs engine with no problem, that's crazy. I had a zr before that had rs cams fitted and still using zr ecu, you should have seen the damage done to that engine. Zero compression due to melted piston(running lean).

Ah no, i do not think that, i actually done that , there was no damage to that engine and the AFR havent change that much from what it was with RS ECU, however ive only had that set up for a short while, in longer run it might be possible to destroy the engine with lack of fuel.

Yes all ecus will self adjust to the slightest degree but not to auto map itself when you change the crossover point lol. That will do more bad than good, even a fuel controller like a neo isn't all that great as it can only map in blocks of 8( 0-8000rpm) unlike a fully adjustable ecu.

Self mapping feature would be handy wouldn't it hehe.

Have U seen the "PRO" settings on it? Looks like fuel tables in Mitsubishi ECU's. Do U think the ECU adjust the timing and fueling every crank revolution, no it does it in 250-500-1000 rpm steps depending on application and actual load.

U have something crazy in Your mind like moving Mivec switch over point to 0k rev's while im telling ya that it can be moved safely that tiny bit to suit Your mods if You have an accurate way to check that it need to be moved and what change did it made. Also something that will monitor the AFR.

Even tho i would move it to 3k revs it still wouldn't do any harm as i think the maps for the hi cam will kick in the moment the pin on the ECU receive ground connection.
I would loose a lot of torque and probably affect the power curve to.

Anyway i'll keep experimenting and testing while ya keep Yourself locked in that conservative way of thinking it cant be done

In the new season i'll whip that white lill Coolt more than 10 lengths just that U see what progress U can get when keep on trying

Also im hoping to win it with 4G92 engine (fingers crossed hehe)

[mivecrx]

Well I would rather not change it, I've seen that rs running zr ecu for myself and the damage it done. Also any car tuner will say it's a bad idea. It's obvious you can change it and the car will run, how long will it last though? maybe a few months maybe a few years who knows.

[brccrx]

If ya have a way to monitor whats going on theres no way U'll go wrong with it.

I agree its a bad idea to move Mivec crossover point but moving it along with the Mivec maps its just as safe as the factory settings.