Sellers, avoid paypal at all cost !

[Masa]

hi all,

just had some problems with this fecking company.

Here is a copy of the mail I sent them:

you should understand what happened.


Hi,

I have been your customer for 4 years now,
I had 2 reclamations ongoing with the same customer. PP-629-441-XXX is the one I can't manage to contest.
One was just "sentenced" in his advantage and I'm afraid it'll be the same for the answer. PP-629-416-XXX is the other.
What is really grave as well is that when I wanna click the "contest" button it goes to a page, then another and back to the initial one without having done nothing else than showing errors.

What gets me extremely upset as well is that we aren't even given an explanation of why the "judgment" was made in favor of the others.

I gave a proof of the shipping. How can the customer show he didn't received my goods? He can't... So you trust him, but I have to give proof, which are useless as we can see as I still lose, when I am the one paying you with the fees.; Total nonsense.
If something is done, do it for everyone...
And even when we give the proofs we lose ...

So is your system made to screw up the sellers and raise the criminality level o nthe buyer side?
It seems, people can receive the goods and then just say "nothign received" and they'll be instantly refunded with MY money! Without any proof to give, even when they're lying!
And they can always choose the cheapest shipping price, anyway the only risk is that the seller will loose is money by refunding the buyer ...

This is just disgusting and I'm reallu outraged by what happens.

I am a Manager in Siemens, a HUGE company. I am as well a former police officer.. No one is more honest than me.

But when I see that, I can see that this lets the door open to anything coming from the buyer side. This is just unaceptable and unfair.

And be assured that I'll have all my family off paypal right now (and they are heavy users of paypal), as well as I will forward this to all the people I know in both France and Ireland (where I actually work) and to everyone in my company as well, as well as the medias; happily I know some who'll be glad to investigate this issue and what is asked to the seller and not the buyer. Be sure that shortly all buyers will avoid your company like the plague.

I am also strongly thinking of bringing you to court for this. Not for the money, but for the principle.
Whatever your User Agreement says, not a single court in the World will give a verdict saying that you have the right to judge people, to decide whether someone is good or wrong.
You are not a court, you are a company.

I hereby ask you to transfer my money back, as I did all what a seller had to do, and strongly urge you to change several things in the way you handle the complaints.

Regards,


I sent this to every paypal mailadress I could find.

[mcgon1979]

yikes...

have used paypal as a seller for years. have sold almost 100 items. Never had any problems like this. It seems very strange they would refund the buyer and take th emoney from your account without consulting you about the situation.
I suppose the only way is to ship things registered/insured mail and them put a claim in with the post service if the person says they never received it.
Was this on ebay? did the person have a good feedback rating?

As a buyer I can see it form that point of view too. If I ordered something and paid for it, and it never arrived, even though the seller shows he has posted it, its not my fault and I still must be compensated. He must take it up with the post service he used. Let us know what happens? sh1t situaiton. I hope some soultion is found for you.

[Masa]

Hi Mc Gon,

thanks for your support

ya it was on ebay, the guy had a good feedback rating.

But it was sent on regular mail because registered was too expensive for him..
he knew it and when it happens I'd be the one who has to pay ??

I do have your point, when it is registered I'd say do a 50/50 between buyer and seller, both are innocents.

But when the user want regular post in order to save money why should I be the one paying for his lost bet?


And even as a buyer, if I wanna send him nothing but cardoard with a registered mail, instead of a valuable good, what is he gonna do?

You've been lucky so far, hope it'll go on, but scum trying to scam people is everywhere so watch out

I've raised this on a french board as well and in less than & h I had more than 10 people coming to say that they had problems as well with paypal for this matter exactly or closed ones.

So beware :s

Only problem for them is that I'm fecking stubborn .. When I start to gnawl a bone I don't let it go easily

[Muad_dib77]

Always (and I mean ALWAYS) get a tracking number..If a buyer wants to pay with paypal you run the risk of them placing a claim against you afterwards..

Can I just say I used to be a powerseller on eBay - and an employee for a number of years as well - and I have been scammed out of about 300e myself..

sadly there are nasty people out there, all you can do is try and contact your buyers before sending off your stuff.. if they seem dodge, tell them to take a hike.. (mind you that'll prolly land you a negative feedback!)

oh btw..

I don't sell on eBay any more.. I'll buy though..

[kevinod]

Had a problem as a buyer on ebay before... was going to be in the US for a few weeks with work, so asked the seller to send whatever it was to the hotel I was going to be at. No sign of it, and I emailed and emailed the seller with no response. Ended up opening a claim with Paypal, and they got onto the seller, who then sent it to the hotel, who signed for it, seller sent proof of signature to paypal. Paypal said they received proof so that was good enough and closed it, and refused to re-open. Despite me clearly explaining the situation they just refused to re-open it.

Seller subsequently left ME bad feedback in retaliation for me leaving bad feedback for him, only he said 'great ebayer, instant payment A+' and marked it negative.

I guess I'm lucky in that that was the only time I really got done on it, and it wasn't a lot of money so lesson learned. There doesn't seem to be any common sense being applied though!

[finers]

Sorry to here im not Paypals biggest fan either!, i got onto them a while back after they charged me over 5% for receiving money!! i emailed them and got a response o sorry we charged you to much, now i see im getting almost 4% for receiving credit card transactions or money from other users paypals! is there a set rate i can look up it seems very ambiguous.

[colm_mcm]

very hard to avoid paypal..

[Masa]

very hard to avoid paypal..

not that hard

bank transfers are quick and free in whole europe

that's what I'll ask from now on.

And ya even in our small community here we quickly see that paypal rises problems :s

[Muad_dib77]

very hard to avoid paypal..

not that hard

bank transfers are quick and free in whole europe

that's what I'll ask from now on.

And ya even in our small community here we quickly see that paypal rises problems :s

you'll have a hard time getting bids on eBay without using paypal..

problem is there is no real alternative to paypal that has fewer issues..

there just isn't..

trust me on this one.

[gabico]

I used to sell some electronic parts on ebay with paypal as the only payment option and with two postage options one with tracking one without for the buyer to decide.
One time the buyer claimed he never received the part, opened a paypal claimed and won even though I had proof of shipping but no tracking number.
Lesson learner so I removed the no tracking option and sent everything registered and didnt have any problems.

I had another problem with paypal that annoyed me: Some guy bought something, paid very fast but something didnt feel right about the transaction: the shipping address and the paypal address was different and also some part of the name. So I asked paypal to verify the payment. Few days later they email me saying the payment looks legit. I still had doubts so I didnt post the item ignoring buyers emails. Few days later paypal send another email that the cc used to make the payment was reported stolen and they got the money from my account. Now what would have happened if I sent out the item? I would have lost the money and paypal didnt take any responsibility.
I stop selling regularly on ebay now and Im happy enough just buying stuff using paypal.
I also believe paypal offers more protection for the buyer than for the seller but it became so popular that you have to use it to get more possible buyers interested.

There are few campaigns against paypal like this one http://www.nopaypal.com/

Also I red somewhere about a guy loosing all his money and facing prosecution in the states because of paypal's way of handling claims...cant find that link now..

[kevinod]

bank transfers are quick and free in whole europe

Dunno about anyone else, but there's no way I'm giving a stranger my bank details... they'd have my name & address (for postage) and bank details, doesn't sounds like a good combo to be giving away.

[CJ]

I've been using Paypal for about 6 years without any issue. Its very tough to buy or sell on ebay without Payapl, personally, I don't want to mess about with bank details, IBAN numbers, sterling drafts et al. No system is perfect but I'm willing to take my chances with Paypal based on past experience.

CJ

[mcgon1979]

I also believe paypal offers more protection for the buyer than for the seller

thats it in a nutshell Gabico. its all based on buyer confidence. I bought an 8gig usb keyring that only held 4gig. a dodgy china one. the guy refused to refund me even htough I only asked for half my money back. had to escalate it. solved by paypal in 2 days. refunded 50% as per my request.

I suppose they need to provide that level of no fuss to the buyers or they might not use it again. sucks alright. never heard of a buyer saying they never got something. thats his risk if he wants it sent cheap.

[Masa]

I also believe paypal offers more protection for the buyer than for the seller

thats it in a nutshell Gabico. its all based on buyer confidence. I bought an 8gig usb keyring that only held 4gig. a dodgy china one. the guy refused to refund me even htough I only asked for half my money back. had to escalate it. solved by paypal in 2 days. refunded 50% as per my request.

I suppose they need to provide that level of no fuss to the buyers or they might not use it again. sucks alright. never heard of a buyer saying they never got something. thats his risk if he wants it sent cheap.

ya but the problem is that it's the seller who pays paypal and allow them to make money..

If they wanan protect the buyer fine, but let the buyer pay the fees.

[gabico]

I can understand that they need some ground rules and makes more sense for them to prioritize the buyers but they make their money from the seller's fees. They take no responsibility in transactions, if something goes wrong they just loose the fee but the seller/buyer looses his money.
I accepted the fact that one of the rule as a seller is to have an online tracking number but when I asked them to check a transaction I only got back an email that looked like an auto-reply. After they reversed the payment I sent them a couple of emails trying to get an explanation and all responses where "automatic" without addressing my questions, just some links to their faq page, it was like no one from there was actually reading the emails just sending auto-responses.

[Muad_dib77]

they do have phone support.. and it actually works..

[Masa]

they do have phone support.. and it actually works..

if you find the phone where to ring you're a genius,

cause I didn't managed, must be well hidden

[Muad_dib77]

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