The Irish Mitsubishi FTO Owners Club

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... king57.htm

that's very unreasonable

no less reasonable than refusing to insure people of a certain age. There are parts of Dublin that have both a high rate of car crime and a lot of drivers of a certain skill level. Some insurers don't insure FTOs, Quinn are choosing to not insure people who live in a high risk area. I can't see the problem here, it ultimately means lower premiums for those of us (including you Seb) who are with quinn because nobody else will insure us for a decent price.

no less reasonable than refusing to insure people of a certain age.There are parts of Dublin that have both a high rate of car crime and a lot of drivers of a certain skill level. Some insurers don't insure FTOs, Quinn are choosing to not insure people who live in a high risk area. I can't see the problem here, it ultimately means lower premiums for those of us (including you Seb) who are with quinn because nobody else will insure us for a decent price.

How can you think that this is ok? Its a load of crap. If that was brought in by all insurance companies it would lead to people driving around with no insurance. Where would you be then if one of them crashed into YOU?

There are parts of Dublin that have both a high rate of car crime and a lot of drivers of a certain skill level.

Are you suggesting that were you live has something to do with how you drive a car?? Come on Colm you cant be serious. You must be just trying to wind Seb up because he lives near Tallaght.

And even if there are a lot of dodgy drivers in Dublin how do you know they live in Dulbin?

karlf wrote:How can you think that this is ok? Its a load of crap. If that was brought in by all insurance companies it would lead to people driving around with no insurance. Where would you be then if one of them crashed into YOU?


Are you suggesting that were you live has something to do with how you drive a car?? Come on Colm you cant be serious. You must be just trying to wind Seb up because he lives near Tallaght.

And even if there are a lot of dodgy drivers in Dublin how do you know they live in Dulbin?

While I'm not a fan of Quinn Direct, I can see why they're doing this. For example:

Insurance on an Integra is higher than on a Fiesta because statistically they crash more, and when they do they cost more to put right, they are driven by a different type of driver. This prejudice isn't 100% fair because it pretty much tars all Integra drivers with the same brush. Statistically an Integra is riskier.

Insurance for a 24 year old with no driving experience is less than for an 17 year old with no experience, neither have ever driven on the road before and therefore have neither experience, previous convictions or previous accidents. it is presumed (based on statistics) that the 24 year old will be safer, so his insurance is cheaper. This prejudice isn't 100% fair because it treats safe 17 year olds the same as dangerous 17 year olds. it treats dangerous 24 year olds better than safe 17 yeare olds. Statistically younger drivers are riskier.

Insurance for girls is generally cheaper than for guys, this is based on statistics, and doesn't take girl racers or safe male drivers into account. Statistically guys are riskier.

My insurance in Clare was quite cheap, when I moved to Clondalkin, it shot up, when I moved to Kildare it went down again, I'm guessing this was based on risks attached to theft, volumes of traffic, volumes of pedestrians likely to be around, numbers of uninsured drivers, and the drivers in that area being involved in certain types of costly accidents with personal injuries.
Now, much the same as some insurers refuse to insure Integras, some refuse males under 23, some refuse male drivers - Quinn are taking the leap of refusing customers from very high risk areas. (you're talking very specific parts of Clonsalkin and Tallaght and not all people living in the vicinity) and I for one can't see the problem.

Well I'll have to disagree with you on that one so. I think its wrong that a person cant get insured if they live in a certain area regardless of the risks being higher for that area for whatever reason. As you pointed out your insurance went up/down depending on where you lived as the risks in this area were deemed to be higher/lower. So why shouldn't that same principal apply to these people, if its an area of higher risk than would be considered normal load that area with an extra premium. Or insist that they get a cat1 alarm before they insure them, that way the risk of the car being knicked is relatively low.
As with all things like this they start of in certain areas and gradually include more and more areas. I wonder if you would still feel the same about this if it was introduced for where you live. I'm pretty sure your attitude to this would change then. If like me and quinn are the only ones that will insure you on an FTO, what would you do if you couldn't get insured with them because you live in a high risk area?

With regard to statistics and what they prove/disprove is irrelevant to why I dont agree with you this one. Infact they kinda adds basis to my arguement. Insurance companies usually deal with increased risks due to age,s3x,car type etc with the same solution, which is increased premiums. People need to be insured and should be able to avail of it regardless of where they live.

but sure loads of companies won't insure FTOs in the first place, some won't insure men (half the population!) why not moan about them and how unfair that is? Quinn don't have any obligation to look after everyone, infact they're known for not doing that - they're the Ryanair of ionsurance. if there is a gap in the market in these areas in Dublin that are deemed to be costing Quinn too much money folling Quinns departure, then I'm sure it will be filled by someone else offering what Quinn used to - if that doesn't happen, then it proves Quinn right.

I do I think its a load of crap people cant get insured in an FTO. There are a lot of cars out there that are more powerful than the FTO that I could get insured in cheaper. But if people didn't have the attitude that as it doesn't affect them it doesn't matter maybe that wouldn't be the case.
And as someone who is in the same position I would assume you would be more sympathetic to people who are subject to similar outageous conditions insurance companies are imposing on people before applying it to a premium.
I just think its so ridiculous.
If insurance companies had any foresight they would realise that basing premiums on age for one is pointless. Over a persons life the insurance they pay would balance out.
For example:
If some one paid €5000,€4000,€2000,€1500,€1000,€500 and then €400 a year for the next 10 years and €200 for the next 10 they would pay a total of €20000.
Or alternatively if they paid €1000 every year for 20 years it would work out the same and make it more affodable for people starting out.
I can guarntee that if it was based on s3x and it meant women paid morefor insurance that women wouldn't just sit around and accept it. It would be classed as sexist and like everything else that is rearded as sexist it would be outlawed.

karlf wrote:If some one paid €5000,€4000,€2000,€1500,€1000,€500 and then €400 a year for the next 10 years and €200 for the next 10 they would pay a total of €20000.
Or alternatively if they paid €1000 every year for 20 years it would work out the same and make it more affodable for people starting out.

Doesn't work like that though Karl, for that to work, everybody would really have to sign a 20 month contract to be sure of it balancing out, who's gonna pay 1000 in the 20th year if someone else is doing it for 200?

Insurance is based on statistics and risk, those who are a higher risk due to circumstances or previous mistakes pay more. this acts as a deterrant against constantly claiming on insurance for small amounts of damage, it discourages high risk drivers from driving high risk cars, or in some cases from driving altogether.

low risk > low premium
high risk > high premium

personally I don't mind FTOs being more expensive to insure, it keeps a lot of boy racers out of them.

karlf wrote:I can guarntee that if it was based on s3x and it meant women paid morefor insurance that women wouldn't just sit around and accept it. It would be classed as sexist and like everything else that is rearded as sexist it would be outlawed.

This has been attempted before, and it never got anywhere, one of the principles of determining premiums is breaking people down into many groups and building a profile of the customer, it all comes down to risk, and if the stats say you're a risk - you pay more.

I know it doesn't work like that but it should. I dont think the way it works is fair as it is without them introducing more restrictions on people. I just think it sucks that Quinn can get away with not providing some areas with insurance and that you agree with them doing this.

one of the principles of determining premiums is breaking people down into many groups and building a profile of the customer, it all comes down to risk, and if the stats say you're a risk - you pay more.

My point exactly. They should charge more for these areas not use the higher risk as a way of not offering certain areas/people insurance.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, because we could debate this forever. I know I wont change my view on this.

Some good points raised on both sides fellas, Quinns actuaries must have been working overtime on the risk analysis front. From a risk perspective, an area is just another variable to plug into the equation, while it isn't fair to exclude certain areas from the quote process, the same is true for the car (i.e. FTO), the s3x (i.e. male) or the age (i.e. youngfla).

The decision by Quinn is unprecedented by Irish standards as far as I'm aware, I've heard of this happening in the UK on the basis of postcode...

CJ

I wonder why there was no mention of Limerick?
There's a few spots down here I wouldn't go into in a tank.

I was always under the impression that insurers in this country were legally obliged to quote for motor insurance. While they might quote you a ridiculous premium, they were still obliged to quote.

Have I always been wrong about this, or has something changed?

Thats what I thought myself but from my own experience it doesn't seem to be the case. I can only get insured on the FTO through Quinn, everyone else just says we dont cover them.

Hibernian said they would quote me when I have 3 years NCB. They were the only ones after xcess direct (stupid requests) that even listened to me.

Baldrick wrote:I was always under the impression that insurers in this country were legally obliged to quote for motor insurance. While they might quote you a ridiculous premium, they were still obliged to quote.

Have I always been wrong about this, or has something changed?

As I understand, unless it has changed, that is only the case if you are already insured with them. If you're not currently insured with them they have no legal obligation to give you a quote.

optical illusion wrote:Hibernian said they would quote me when I have 3 years NCB. They were the only ones after xcess direct (stupid requests) that even listened to me.

Most of the companies I've talked to would only quote based on 5+ years NCB, but maybe that's a guys vs girls thing again. Dunno, have my 5 years again this year and hoping to get screwed a little less this year.

kevinod wrote:

Baldrick wrote:I was always under the impression that insurers in this country were legally obliged to quote for motor insurance. While they might quote you a ridiculous premium, they were still obliged to quote.

Have I always been wrong about this, or has something changed?

As I understand, unless it has changed, that is only the case if you are already insured with them. If you're not currently insured with them they have no legal obligation to give you a quote.

You're possibly/probably right. I'm not sure. My understanding was something like this: For an Irish citizen to drive on Irish roads, they have to be insured. For an Insurance Company to be legally registered in this country, they have to be willing to provide insurance for all citizens of this country (albeit at a ridiculous premium), but they have to quote.

I take your point 'if you are already insured with them', but I believe this is a piece of sh1t that the insurance companies have introduced to get around their legal obligations. I believe that by refusing to quote they are acting illegally.

For the record:
I've been working for a major insurance company for 20+ years
I don't sell it, promote it etc. I'm backroom (IT)
The insurance industry was built on low-life gambling dens (fact) and it disgusts me.

I'm pretty sure if you can't get a quote, you should obtain a letter stating the reason why from the insurance company, on receipt of 5 of these letters you can then go to the ombudsman and through him, one of the insurance companies (possibly the first) are legally obliged to quote you, however, they can quote you whatever they like as long as it is technically a quote!

I got huffy with hibernian once..told them on the phone that they were my number five..

result!!...i got a quote!!


of 5k...

so if they dont want the business they dont want the business..