Vigrously Jerking when put in gear

[roommy]

Hi Lads... I am surprised to see so much information on this website and salute you all for making it available. I have just downloaded the manuals which I am going to read and see if I can get some answers to my problem.

I will also share it with you guys if anyone can help me with it. I have a 1998 Facelift Mitsubishi FTO 2.0 GX with a 5-Speed triptonic gearbox. It is jerking vigously as if the engine will just break off and the car will break into pieces when I try to drive it off. The car starts and drives fine when tyres are off the road( if both the front wheels are lifted on stands). I have tested it upto 100 m/h speed) there is no jerks or even any sound of any loose broken part while the wheels are free in air..The wheels move fast and fine smoothly but as it touches the ground (wheels on ground under the engine load) it starts shaking left and right vigorously as soon as i put it in gear or after rolling for a few seconds. Is this something to do with the gearbox or suspension? Does anyone know about these 5-speed triptonic Gearboxes. Please help me !!

This car means a world to me!! [/b]

[crossroads]

Hey Roommy. Crossroads from Oz here. I have the same problem. Also when stopped at lights violent jerking, but not every time (i.e. intermittant). Then today got stuck in 3rd gear with neutral indicator flashing. When I turned car off and on again it seemed to work normally but I am a bit concerned about driving it any distance in case I cause major damage. If anyone has any thoughts I would be extremely grateful.
Thanks.

[Muad_dib77]

Hi Guys - I think the general consus when these issues start to occour with Tip Boxes is to begin by doing an oil change on the box - along with the filters..

An ecu reset might also be useful - (disconnect the battery for - I think it's 45mins, some please confim?)..

Then once that all done - take the car for a short spin, see what's what - if problem persist check error codes from the ECU - there's a method to that involving 1 wire.. do a search..

Let us know how you get on..

Also as you're getting jerking check your CV joints, droplinks, wheelnuts and axels - if you lift the car up it should be easy enough to do the visual part..(look, clean, look, pull at it - if anything that shouldn't move moves replace it )..

but I'd start with the gear box oil..

[crossroads]

Thanks Maud. I changed oil and filters about 10,000K (not miles) ago. I just disscinected the battery now and will work through your other suggestions. I really appreciate your help. Cheers.

[CJ]

Both of these problems sound like gearbox issues, a flashing 'N' is a dead giveaway. I would suggest a full gearbox flush and filter change for a start, in the mean time, undertake a diagnostic (search the forum) to see if speed or I/O gearbox sensors are at fault.

Erratic gear changes can be caused by low ATF levels, check this also (when hot).

CJ

[steelroe]

Sound like a dodgy Torque convertor or solenoid in the box

But as suggested check and cahange fluid and filter firstly

[steelroe]

Does the engine rev smoothly with the transmission in neutral.

Suspension problem will cause knocking noises, doubt you have a problem there.

Also maybe get some gearbox flush before you change the fluid.

[roommy]

Thanks Guys! I will start off with changing the gearbox oil. Have already bought the gearbox oil filter not sure I have the right gear oil though. Question: Is ATF oil and Gear oil two different things or the same? Any sugestions which oil and flush to use? I have read that the triptronic gearbox contains around 8 litres of oil but you can only take out 5 litres. If I use the flush to clean it how will I take the whole of it out? any links to read about ECU diagonostics will also help. Does these Trip boxes have seperate ECU or they share the main ECU? where is the ECU located? In the engine bay or elsewhere? (May be a daff question but thats how much I know my beloved!)

Thanks again. Thanks Maud and all others trying to help me through this tough time in our relationship (me and my FTO).. hopefully we ll be back together on the road soon..

[Dragonheart]

ATF Dextron 111 is the lad you're looking for with the gearbox oil. To fully drain it its better to leave it overnight.

[steelroe]

To help fully drain you should jack up the drivers side of the car, thus tilting the box towards the gronund. Also if you remove one of the cooller hoses going to the rad and pressurise it with compressed air it will push out 99% of the oil.
As for flush I normally use "WYNN's" but ant AT flushing fluid should do the job.

[optical illusion]

Yes, ECU resets at 45 mins...

[steelroe]

According to the Prpair manuals the ECU resets after approx 1 minute

[roommy]

Hi Guys
Back again... I have flushed the whole ATF oil out.. Left it overnight to drain and took the Battery connectors out too.. Today.. I have taken the rest of the oil out from the Rad oil cooler hoses to make sure its all out.. Fitted a new filter and replaced the oil ATF DIII. Connected the battery back and tested.. The car is doing the same thing.. Any suggestions what should be the next step?

[roommy]

Have jacked the car up on stands again.. and tried to drive it with wheels off the ground.. The Gear "N" Light is constantly flashing now.. and the car is not going beyond 3rd gear.. It is now even shaking while jacked up on stands!!.. Makes me cry!!.. Is my gearbox gone?

[CJ]

Sounds like the torque convertor - a common failure unfortunately. Bad news is you'll need to replace the box (probably cheaper than a recon).

CJ

[steelroe]

If it is the torque converter then it can be replaced easily enough if you can locate a replacement. The Torque converter is un-servicable as it is a sealed unit.

You dont need to replace the box if the converter is at fault seperate items.

The torque converter is the dome shape object attached where the flywhell is normally on a manual car. Looks exactly like this one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-E36-E39-323-3 ... 9006621625

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_converter

[steelroe]

Do a diagnostic firstly to see what codes come up (if any) this is the start point.

[crossroads]

Hi Roomey. Hold off on torque converter just yet. As Steelroe suggests - do a diagnostic first. Check out post
http://www.fto-ireland.com/forum/phpBB2 ... php?t=3976
This post will also give you link to how to do diagnostic.
If you go to workshop manual 1 pg296 (23/17) it tells you "if diagnosis code no. ... is output 4 times the transmission is locked into 3rd gear as a failsafe measure and the N range lamp flashes". Probable cause - Malfunction of the:- input shaft speed sensor. :- output shaft speed sensor. etc. This area will also tell you what the codes indicate.
May work out cheeper than replacing torque convertor to find out it was just the speed senser all the time.
Hope it works. I am in the same boat and I am hoping this is the answer for me as well. Good luck

[steelroe]

Any update on the diagnostic .

I have been doing a lot of reading into Automatic Transmission over the last few days and the FTO manual is fill with info on testing and fault finding for the tip box.

I am currently working on a box that keeps bringing up code 43.

To test your torque converter you need to carry out a "Torque Converter Stall Test. Section 23 of the manual Page 55 i.e 23-55
As follows.
Make sure fliuid level is correct.Run the engine until ATF fluid and Colanty are up to operating temp.
Ensure the handbrake is on.
With the engine running do the following.

Press the brake pedal fully. Put the gearbox in drive "D". Floor the acclelerator and not the max revs the reve counter goes up to.

Specification is 2100-2600 rpm.

Refer to section 3-55 for the possible causes if the Stall speed is too high or too low.

[steelroe]

Procedure here

[crossroads]

Hi Lads. Took my baby to local Auto Transmission Specialist who knew sh.. nothing about FTO,s. His attitude was "write a blank cheque and I will fix it". Obviously this was not acceptable.
I found a (almost) local spare parts importer. Their advice was "almost certainly gearbox electronics fried". Not worth dismanteling and testing for fix. Better replace whole gearbox. Cost $1500 Aus (+$100 towing).
Result- back on the road and better than ever in 2 days.
Note for what it's worth - these guys said not to use dextron 3. Should only use ATF from mitsubishi. Sounded strange to me but I thought I would pass it on.
Best of luck with yours.

[CJ]

Better replace whole gearbox. Cost $1500 Aus (+$100 towing).
Result- back on the road and better than ever in 2 days.
Note for what it's worth - these guys said not to use dextron 3. Should only use ATF from mitsubishi. Sounded strange to me but I thought I would pass it on.

Crossroads, undertake a diagnostic to see if its a simple sensor problem, its free and easy!

I was recommendeding Dextron III for years, now I'd be inclined to stick with Diamond \ Diaqueen SP III as per the service manual (Amsoil ATF conforms to this standard).

CJ

[steelroe]

Firstly there are no electronics in the gearbox itself, just a couple of speed sensors and solenoid valves. DOwnload the service manuals from this site and undertake the test procedures for the Automatic Transmission.

There are test procedures for everything in there and you do not need special equpment for a lot of them. Why pay for something you may be able to fix yourself.

[roommy]

Hi Again Boys.. I have had the most terrible last six months. I have two Mitsubishi FTO's a Pre face lift Mivec GPX Manual and this facelift FTO GX triptronic. A Nissan 300ZX and an Audi A4. After i was exhausted trying to find the fault. I left it until now when I got my bonus from work. Now I have taken it to a local garage for diagonstics. The fault came up as 'Slip Diff" nackered. So either I need to get this gearbox reconditioned. or get a new gearbox. The garage isn't much helpful in finding me one. or even with getting that one repaired so I am on a mission to find the gearbox. Can anyone let me know if you know some place where i can get one from? The part number on my gearbox states:
F5A421E7A2
FY4669

Also Anyone looking for a Mitsi FTO Black Manual with Sunroof, 67K Miles? I need to sell some of my cars so this one is up for sale now.

[roommy]

Hi guys.

19 Days in the garage and I have been ringing the guy every day 2 to 3 times and he has been giving me all sort of different stories. First he told me that the Slip diff is gone and gearbox needs to come off and reconditioned to fix the slip diff. Then without asking me he sent it to someone to get it repaired (He told me he did but I don't think he has even touched the gearbox). Then he told me your gearbox is not repairable and you need a new one. It was a nightmare finding a new one. but after ringing around 85 breakers and sending around 50 emails. I found one. It is arriving tomorrow. This morning, I had a call from him (first ever since car is with this guy) telling me that the gearbox is fine. The drive shaft on the car has somehow shortened as the car had an accident before I bought it. (I was aware of that and I had changed the driver side front wishbone and leg). Now he had put some washers to extend it and its not jerking. It was annoying and understandable so I went to check it. The car is driveable (Not jerking). He said he has replaced the Slip diff but I seriously doubt that. The Car will stay in First gear when put in D and in triptronic mode it won't go beyond 3rd gear and won't drop down when slowed. I asked him if he did the diagonstic on it. and he did it just now. Two codes came up "23" and "51" 23 on his machine was refering to output speed sensor and 51 was refering to SCI fail. Both of us haven't had a clue what these codes are. I asked him that I want the car back as he hasn't done anything and he is giving me a fat bill of £450. I am in deep s***t with no clue what is my next step from here. Can anyone please guide me what should I do..