Pothole damage in guess where - Meath!

[optical illusion]

Oh the joys of Meath roads.

I'll try keeping it short: travelling navan to athboy, night time, huge f**k off deep pothole in road where tyres would normally cover, travelling under speed limit, hit it, car nearly careers across road, tyre and rim badly damaged, have to change the wheel myself in the pitch black (little 7 and half stone me!) Pothole is so deep it goes through TWO LAYERS of surface. (see below and yes that is a 30 cm ruler)

New tyre = (that I just so happened to have bought 2 weeks previously ) = E75
Tracking = E45
Navan Coco = priceless

Letter and evidence and they reply 2 days later claiming non feasance. This basically states that a pothole is a feature which occurs naturally and the council cannot be expected to know about a hole immediately. However, there is a duty of care on the council if they have either been notified of the pothole's existance (difficult to prove) or if the pothole has
appeared due to their negligence in repairing it previously (easier to prove). How do I get them to prove the latter?

He didn't even have the decency to sign it himself, and I get the impression that this is a template letter they send to everyone.

All I wanted was E120. I know people have got money from them for brand new alloys and tyres costing E1000, and that they get it too, as they put a fund away for this every year in their budget.

So my question is, Small Claims Court, threaten them with this action via a letter first, or count my losses. They are probabaly thinking to themselves 'ah sure she's just a woman she'll back down' They are messing with the wrong woman... Also, I have photocopies of my receipts, they have the originals, should I ask for them back before going further, or will the photocopies do in court?

What do you think folks? What the f**k am I paying my tax for?!!?
Any advice appreciated...

[colm_mcm]

fair play to mother nature making a perfectly rectangular pothole!

looks like a badly patched job after laying cables/pipes.

[steelroe]

MOnitor it for the next wek or more and record whether they repair it or not. If not then they would be liable for not acting after being told it was there.

Keep after them and they will eventually give in. Threathen to take it to court.

[optical illusion]

Right, well I'm driving to Limerick on Friday so I'll check then...

Good idea dude...

Anyone ever try to claim from their council?

[Myfeckin FTO]

You say "new tyre" - but it looks like it absolutely smashed your rim as well - hope you are still not driving on that.

Please, please chase this till the end of the earth - I'm personaly sick to the teeth of trying to avoid the same f*cking potholes year in - year out! And they never do anything more than throw a couple of shovels of chips in that are gone the following week.

It does look like a patch of road thats been dug up before and just not properly repaired - like 99% of the rest of the roads in this country.
I pay 1400 Euros + road tax a year for this - probably the highest road tax in the world and I have to drive on probably the worst roads in Europe - the more that people like your good self can chase these issues the better. Don't let this go!

They claim "non feasance"? Its gone through at least two layers on the driving line and is 15 cms deep FFS! Exactly how dangerous does a pothole have to be before they decide to take their thumbs out and repair?

Nice Ruler BTW - wouldn't have been my choice for putting a case forward to the council!

[CJ]

Please, please chase this till the end of the earth

I'm with you there, first off, farr play to you for bringing it this far. That pothole has been developing for months I would say, tthe council have either ignored it or not kept up on road checks. The Small Claims court would be a good avenue, suggest ou speak with you local solicitor for some advice.

If CC's are made accountable for the damage that badly maintained roads cause to our cars, they may actually start being a bit more proactive about the whole thing.

CJ

[Muad_dib77]

JEBUS!

That's some hole! I can tell you right now that that did not occur through natural erosion - it's much too sheer for that.

Also - that is definately an alloy replacement as well as a tyre replacement - that wheel is langered!

There are some nasty evil roads in Meath so the peeps in charge of paying out money are well used to rejecting claims - keep chasing them though they will eventually cave in.. Oh and definately up your claim!

[Mustang]

I believe the official line is that if a pothole develops, and you drive into it, then you need to claim off mother nature. If a pothole develops, is repaired by the council, and then reappears -due to poor repair, then you can claim off the council.
Also I believe that (just my opinion) if the pothole is reported to the council they have a duty of care to repair it, within a resonable time frame.
I drove up through offaly and Meath over the weekend (can't remember where we croseed the offaly Meath border), but some of the potholes were unbelievable, at one stage I actually had to stop the car to check if the tyre was ok

[steelroe]

JUst hope it is there for another couple of weeks and get documented evidence of that and re-submit it to them, asking for a written reply stating they have received the info.

I have seen several guys claim and if you stick to your guns they will normally pay out. There is normally a contingency fund for this type of thing set aside.

Stick to your guns and if it does not inconvienence you too much, hassle them every second day or so.

[Muad_dib77]

JUst hope it is there for another couple of weeks and get documented evidence of that and re-submit it to them, asking for a written reply stating they have received the info.
.

If you want to have on record that they've received the letter you could also use registered post.

[mcgon1979]

The reason they claim non feasance is that they cannot possibly know about all the parts of all the roads that need repair. However, IF they have attempted to fill this hole before, or if anyone has notified them of this hole before, than they are 100% relibable and cannot claim the non feasance defence... see below for more info

Section 60 will abolish the defence of nonfeasance by a road authority.

As the law has stood since the famous case of Russell v. The Men of Devon, decided as long ago as 1788, a road authority are not liable for damage resulting from mere nonfeasance, that is to say, from mere neglect to perform their statutory duty to repair the road.

But a road authority are liable for negligence in the execution of their duty. In other words, they are liable for misfeasance.

Section 60 will provide certain statutory defences for a road authority; and the factors to which regard must be had in determining whether a road is adequately maintained are set out.

[mcgon1979]

just to add further to my comment above...

Yes it is a template letter. They get 100s of letters per month claiming for new alloys etc.. Im sure a certain amount are bogus. What people do is damage a rim and then drive to somewhere where the council have recently worked or have attempted to fix the road before... then take pictures and send in the letter. claim approved.

The people who get paid can usually prove that the council will working on that road recently and left it in that state or did not leave it in a proper state. I hit a ridge on a road one day 2 years back. It was about a 4 - 5cm STEP where they had been resurfacing the road and LEFT it in this condition. They had no cones showing the mark on the road and I hit it at 35mph. It nearly burst my tyres but no rim damage. Seriously bad bang. I wrote a letter complaining to 3 different authorities. Road Safety Authority, National Roads Authority, and Fingal CoCo. I told them I lost control of the vehicle (which I did as the wheel jumped from my hands) and I could have been killed. They did not deny responsibility and I noticed cones and signs up all over the place 24hours after I sent in the email & fax. I didn't need to claim amy damage, but think I would have been instantly approved in such a case, given that it was council works not 'erosion'.

[mcgon1979]

just been discussing this with a friend... I think you should take the photos and email them to both the Road Safety authority, and the national roads authority, and tell them you feel the councils attitude and lack of concern is unacceptable given you almost lost control oft he car. also, the nature and position of the hole (between the guide lines of the road) is in the area most travelled on and therefore the council have been negligent to allow the forming of such a dangerous hole.

I think if you do this the RSA and NRA will both have representatives call the council regarding the incident and they will be much more receptive to your letter/complaint/claim.. you'll also find the road will be repaired within days. seriously, try it. The RSA don't like having to contact the council regarding potentially fatality causing holes in the road...

[elaine]

John's brother done this about a year ago, had to get a new alloy as well as a tyre, he also went after the CC he got the money in the end, I think it was when he said he was going to the Papers with it , Also not long ago ,They put tar and chips down but too much tar which went into people tyres ,They had to pay out for all the claims that went in that day. So all in all keep after them and they should pay out

[sinlessgunner]

I work in a County Council (but not in the roads dept). I'll see what I can find out here for the craic!

[Dragonheart]

Fair play to you for having the presence of mind to take pics and stuff! I would have been so p1ssed off with the damage I wouldnt have thought of it. The hole is def caused by a saw of some type I would think, edges are too smooth for erosion, so its a job not finished properly and negligence is the cause of it. Could have been made for trying to find a cable route or something.

[optical illusion]

Okay guys, wow, great response, thanks for all your advice!!! Legends!

I can see that it is a thing that affects everyone who drives in Ireland it would seem.

Firstly - Ruler, borrowed from work (I work in an equestrian shop) Funny though

Rim, mechanic assured me that they would correct it, I said, I don't want to get killed from driving on it, if it needs to be done I'll pay, they assured me that they'd correct it and it would be fine.

This thing about proving other complaints is where my problem lies, sure won't they just burn letters/receipts/delete emails and lie??? I'm sure they're not gonna say, 'aw here love, here's a list of all our complaints'

I don't want to claim more then what it cost me, I don't want to be unreasonable.

A perfectly tyre shaped pothole, bit of a f**king joke on mothers natures part there I think...

I'm gonna take your advice and report it to the NRA and RSA (any ideas on what department I should send it too?) Let's see how that goes. Next then courts.

Oh and by the way, I am not below ringing Gerry Ryan or the Joe Duffy show, as I know I'd get a HUUUUUGE response....

[Dragonheart]

Copy your letters/faxes etc to someone, solicitor, guard if you know one, someone who they can see theres a copy sent to, Just make sure to write c/c and the other persons name and title at the bottom, just so the council do realise its being copied. If its an email just c/c it to someone too, plus print off any emails you sent and then its hard evidence.

[sinlessgunner]

Ok from someone who works in a local authority -

I wouldn't bother ringing the NRA or RSA, you will be told to get back onto your Council.

Tell your local councillor/area representative. They're good at fighting people's cases and getting things done if it means they'll have your vote. I see it everyday, people get nowhere on certain things then letter from a Councillor and the crap hits the fan in the office!

Keep a record of everything you send and receive. Send any letters etc by registered post so they can't deny receiving them and maybe to someone else as back up.

If all else fails consult a solicitor (if you feel it is worth it).

I will talk to someone in the Roads dept. where I work and see what they think!

[optical illusion]

I see... so no letter to the roads authority then...? But would it do any harm to make them aware? McGon, what did your friend say to them?

Hmmm... I'm from Tipperary so I barely know the local shop let alone the local councillor... Only living in Navan 3 months now.

[CJ]

Hmmm... I'm from Tipperary so I barely know the local shop let alone the local councillor... Only living in Navan 3 months now.

Shouldn't make any odds OS, the councillors are there to represent you and your local community. See below for more info:

http://www.meath.ie/LocalAuthorities/Ab ... uncillors/

CJ

[mcgon1979]

Ok from someone who works in a local authority -

I wouldn't bother ringing the NRA or RSA, you will be told to get back onto your Council.

Eh... I have to disagree here sinlessgunner. I was getting stonewalled by the local council, they couldn't care less after I sent in my letter. This made me extremely angry and I wrote a letter to the RSA and the NRA and it MADE A HUGE difference. I argued that in this time of absolute needless carnage on our roads, why am I not being heard when highlighting a potentially fatality causing piece of road surface. It made a HUGE difference because the next day the road was repaired, and marked with lots of cones, and I had a reply from the RSA saying they have contacted the council about this matter on my behalf (I think someone actually rang up the council on behalf of a serious complaint(my one) received by the RSA etc). It bothers even more when you hear people saying "ah don't bother doing that, you'll just be told this..." etc. I don't back down and the truth is if your prepared to kick up a fuss you will be heard. Yes its not easy, if it was easy everyone would do it. If I was gonna get blanked by the RSA I was going to write to my local TD and take it further that way. The only way to get any real compliance from most government departments in Ireland is to go above their heads and have their superiors or a higher authority contact them. This scares them sh1tless!!!! If you write in yourself, who cares. who are you? nobody. whatever...

So my advice Marie, is write a 1 page letter explaining the response from the council. Tell them how dangerous you feel the damage is on the road and how the councils blaise attitude is not acceptable in a country where we lose more than 1 life every single day due to road accidents. Really let them know your not happy. you WILL get a response. Send a letter to the below emails and put them all in the TO: field so they know you are contacting many people about this. attach the photos too.

info@nra.ie (national roads authority)
info@rsa.ie (road safety authority)
info@noeldempsey.ie (meath west TD AND minister for transport)
info@johnnybrady.ie (local Athboy TD)

Lets see you get ignored then...


PS:

theres another one you could copy on your email Marie....

publicaffairs@aaireland.ie

We hope that we won’t find anything quite as ridiculous as this pole-problem elsewhere, but if you have any examples of road hazards or other issues please let the AA know via email

[optical illusion]

Right, that's sorted, you've convinced me! Monday I'm going to start writing the letters. Sure what harm can it do? It'll show that I totally mean business. Thanks for the info, really appreciate it... *high five Borat style*

And I'm not Marie, I'm Laura.

[mcgon1979]

And I'm not Marie, I'm Laura.

apologies Laura



best of luck with the writing. I'm sure it will go well.

[sinlessgunner]

Apologies to McGon. It's just that I deal with both the NRA and the RSA on an almost daily basis and they just provide funding etc. for road schemes for the local authority to carry them out. Didn't think they would have any influence on this topic. But if you got results then it obviously works!!

Best of luck with the complaint. Hope you get the reimbursement you at least deserve.