2.0L V6 V's 2.0L MIVEC V6

[Colin C]

I'm currently looking at buying an FTO. I just wanted to get some peoples opinions on the 177BHP 2.0L V6 & how it compares to the 197BHP 2.0L MIVEC V6. Does the MIVEC stand out as being a much better engine or is the difference not too noticable? I'm on a fairly tight budget & trading in so this narrows it down to about 4 or 5 cars out there at the moment. I drove a MIVEC tiptronic FTO a while back and was very impressed with the engine (Ooohhhh that sound it makes at high revs ) but wasn't too keen on the 4 spd tiptronic gear box (maybe it just takes some getting used to). I can't afford to move up the years to get a 5 spd tiptronic so I'm looking at a 5 spd manual. Only thing is it doesn't have the MIVEC engine.

Colin

[Myfeckin FTO]

If I was buying again I would go with gearbox first and Mivec/Non Mivec second on my list of priorities. I'd rather a Manual GR than a Tip GPX but it would be a fairly close call depending on the car. You really can't beat a manual GPX though - mine is quite a bit quicker (and better sounding) than my last Tip GR.

BTW if you are looking at a classic (pre97 facelift) GR it will have 170BHP - the extra 27BHP of the mivec is definetly worth getting - you'll find it very difficult to modify a GR to that level of power.

If you can find a nice clean Manual GPX then great but don't settle for a poor condition Manual GPX if there is a cleaner Manual GR or Tip GPX on the same money out there.

If you're looking at cars that are posted on the car trader websites - send us the link and there'll be no shortage of people giving there toupence worth.

[Colin C]

The Manual 2L V6 which he told me was a GLX!! I'm guessing it's a GX or GR as he told me it isn't MIVEC is http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=331173. I'm going looking at it today. The guy says it's spotless.

There's also a tip GR http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=334803. Again looks clean but haven't had it out for a drive yet.

The last car isn't on the web yet. I was only talking to the guy and haven't seen it yet. He says it's a steel silver MIVEC tip. The only thing is the milage is near the 100K (miles).

How do these engines hold up to high milage? Are there any reliability concerns with either the 2L V6 or the 2L MIVEC V6?

[Muad_dib77]

I've driven a GR Tip and a GPX manual.. Both are very powerful...

I liked the GPX better than the tip - but I guess that's mainly because I just don't care for automatics

here's a wee link you may find helpful -> http://www.mivec.co.uk/performancedata/

[Myfeckin FTO]

The Manual 2L V6 which he told me was a GLX!! I'm guessing it's a GX or GR as he told me it isn't MIVEC is http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=331173. I'm going looking at it today. The guy says it's spotless.

There's also a tip GR http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=334803. Again looks clean but haven't had it out for a drive yet.

The last car isn't on the web yet. I was only talking to the guy and haven't seen it yet. He says it's a steel silver MIVEC tip. The only thing is the milage is near the 100K (miles).

How do these engines hold up to high milage? Are there any reliability concerns with either the 2L V6 or the 2L MIVEC V6?

The first car (White Manual GR with a bozz front) also has high miles (97,000) - but at least theres a good chance its genuine mileage as opposed to many 95's being sold with half that mileage on the clock.

I would say the FTO would have no problem putting up 150K miles + on its engine if well maintained. Just make sure you get these cars up on ramps and are well checked before making a decision.

[CByrne]

Each to his own, my prefs when I was looking where
1. Man GPX
2. Man GR
3. Tip GPX
4. Tip GR.

I'd take a man GR over a Tip GPX, I love the feel of dropping a gear and feeling the car lurch forward, not the same without the clutch. I drove a TIP GR and TIP GPX, the diff was noticeable. Then I drove the man GR, thought it felt quicker than the TIP GPX, loved it, and still do.

I'd never say it to her within her earshot of course, but If I could swap her for a Man GPX in similar condition, I'd do it in a flash!

[CJ]

I'd never say it to her within her earshot of course, but If I could swap her for a Man GPX in similar condition, I'd do it in a flash!

[pergau]

Point in favout of the Tip box

If you do a lot of driving in traffic, like most of us, you will find the Tip box to be really useful. you still have the semi-manual option of the tip available to you but when you're driving to work etc it is lovely to just slip it inot auto and stop-start with ease.

I have just done 130,000 miles on my GPX Tip and it is driving perfectly so I suspect that a well maintained car would easily be good for 150,000miles. Of course, you have to be a bit sceptical about the mileages displayed on some of the imports and cars on dodgy forecourts. Remember the experience of Toff Mckiney ! http://www.fto-ireland.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3012

[Colin C]

Took both cars for a spin. The white manual GR was very clean on the outside. The inside had quite a bit of wear on the drivers seat, especially along the right hand side. This is probably due to the mileage 147K km's......... 92Kmiles. The manual really does drive well & I'ld say it was as fast as the tip MIVEC I drove before. The car has a service history for the last 3 years & this dealer says he'll give it a full service including the timing belt and will also do the tapets as they're a little bit noisey. He'll also give a 3 month warrenty. He seemed to know his stuff on the FTO as he used to import jap cars. He claims to have imported the 1st FTO into the country. The car also just passed the NCT last August so it has a good 18 months left on it.

I also drove a tip GR which really was a big disapointment after driving the manual. It only had 60K miles on it & although the inside was spotless like it had hardly been driven much, the engine sounded like it was a hard 60K it had gone through. He also said he would do a service and timing belt but wouldn't give a warrenty as it's a performance car . Also had NCT till Jan '07.

I have to say I'm being drawn to the Manual GR even though it has a higher mileage.

[Myfeckin FTO]

Of course, you have to be a bit sceptical about the mileages displayed on some of the imports and cars on dodgy forecourts. Remember the experience of Toff Mckiney ! http://www.fto-ireland.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3012

Ye could learn a lot from from poor Toff's experience - good bless his camp little heart.

[kevinod]

The inside had quite a bit of wear on the drivers seat, especially along the right hand side.

Thats a pretty standard thing to happen to the drivers seat, the cover wearing on the right side. You can get leather or leatherette retrims like a few of us have done to sort that out.

With regards to GR vs GPX, mines a GR and I'm more than happy with it. However true it is, the GR would be regarded as a bit more reliable (more that can go wrong with the GPX Mivec). Looks the same, handling should be the same.

As already stated, the bigger difference is the gearbox, manual vs tip.

[CJ]

and will also do the tapets as they're a little bit noisey

Colin, note that GR tappets are non adjustable (unlike the GPX), if you want to fix them properly, they'll need to be replaced. Most owners just use a top-end treatment which quietens them down however.

the GR would be regarded as a bit more reliable (more that can go wrong with the GPX Mivec)

Don't be put off by this statement, the GPX engine (and ancillaries) is a very relaible unit!

CJ

[Myfeckin FTO]

I also drove a tip GR which really was a big disapointment after driving the manual. It only had 60K miles on it & although the inside was spotless like it had hardly been driven much, the engine sounded like it was a hard 60K it had gone through. He also said he would do a service and timing belt but wouldn't give a warrenty as it's a performance car . Also had NCT till Jan '07.

Walk away from this one.

I have to say I'm being drawn to the Manual GR even though it has a higher mileage.

I'd be of a similar opinion - the seats can be easily sorted - retrim or fit aftermarket seats. The standard seats should be easy to get hold of anyway.

BTW - I'd be very surprised if this dealer replaced the tappets - this wouldn't be a cheap job.

[kevinod]

the GR would be regarded as a bit more reliable (more that can go wrong with the GPX Mivec)

Don't be put off by this statement, the GPX engine (and ancillaries) is a very relaible unit!

that didn't quite come out right, both are solid & reliable engines, basically the same, just making the case for the (slightly more reliable) GR!

[Colin C]

Rang this morning to buy the white manual GR only to be told it was sold yesterday evening. Gutted that I won't be driving an FTO for another while yet. Hopefully I'll come across another manual GR or GPX soon. If anyone sees one selling through trade (as I'm having no look selling my car privately & need to trade in) could they let me know?
Thnx.

[JJ]

Took both cars for a spin. The white manual GR was very clean on the outside. The inside had quite a bit of wear on the drivers seat, especially along the right hand side. This is probably due to the mileage 147K km's......... 92Kmiles. The manual really does drive well & I'ld say it was as fast as the tip MIVEC I drove before. The car has a service history for the last 3 years & this dealer says he'll give it a full service including the timing belt and will also do the tapets as they're a little bit noisey. He'll also give a 3 month warrenty. He seemed to know his stuff on the FTO as he used to import jap cars. He claims to have imported the 1st FTO into the country. The car also just passed the NCT last August so it has a good 18 months left on it.

I also drove a tip GR which really was a big disapointment after driving the manual. It only had 60K miles on it & although the inside was spotless like it had hardly been driven much, the engine sounded like it was a hard 60K it had gone through. He also said he would do a service and timing belt but wouldn't give a warrenty as it's a performance car . Also had NCT till Jan '07.

I have to say I'm being drawn to the Manual GR even though it has a higher mileage.

Contrary to most peoples beliefs there is very little, if any, difference between a GR and a GPX's performance - FACT.
Obviously comparing a manual GPX or GR against a tip GR or GPX you will see a difference, but its the age old arguement of drive what you enjoy. GR's are more reliable than GPX's, again a point that is made by leading FTO garages in the UK.
I've had a GR TIP for nearly 8 years now and its never let me down. I've driven a TIP GPX and I don't miss the difference. With the decat and ITG filter I also have a non mivec roar

[Myfeckin FTO]

Contrary to most peoples beliefs there is very little, if any, difference between a GR and a GPX's performance - FACT.

I'd disagree with this - Try getting another 27bhp out of mods on a GR to bring it up to a GPX's power output and you'll see what I mean - heres a post from our last rolling road day comparing a Manual GPX against a Manual GR - http://www.fto-ireland.com/forum/phpBB2 ... lling+road

I'd also like to see a manual GR get sub 15sec 1/4 mile times or 0-60 in under 6.5 secs. The majority of the fast 1/4 mile times on your own UK forum have been made by Manual GPX's.

............... GR's are more reliable than GPX's, again a point that is made by leading FTO garages in the UK...........

This is really misleading - I've had a GR for 2 years and it never let me down but neither has my present GPX which I've had for 2 years. The parts that generally give trouble are common to each model. Don't buy a GR on the basis thats its more reliable than a GPX.

[Muad_dib77]

Can we atleast agree that they're both amazing machines?

[Myfeckin FTO]

Can we atleast agree that they're both amazing machines?

This goes without saying - I really enjoyed my GR Tip - It was an even cleaner car than my present GPX manual - it was still a quick car with good handling and of course the same gorgeous looks. For day to day driving you don't really need the extra performance the GPX manual offers - its just that the manual GPX has that extra 20% when you want to use it. Theres even less between the Manual GR and GPX but I'd take the Mivec on sound alone before even considering the extra performance. I've driven the GS Manual/GR Tip/GR Manual/GPX Tip and GPX Manual and even the GS is a nice sprightly car to drive. Its just my personal preference would be a GPX Manual and I'm lucky enough to have one. If I was to change cars today it would have to be for a late model Manual GPvR in black ( No gloating please Rusty! ).

[JJ]

Contrary to most peoples beliefs there is very little, if any, difference between a GR and a GPX's performance - FACT.

I'd disagree with this - Try getting another 27bhp out of mods on a GR to bring it up to a GPX's power output and you'll see what I mean - heres a post from our last rolling road day comparing a Manual GPX against a Manual GR - http://www.fto-ireland.com/forum/phpBB2 ... lling+road

I'd also like to see a manual GR get sub 15sec 1/4 mile times or 0-60 in under 6.5 secs. The majority of the fast 1/4 mile times on your own UK forum have been made by Manual GPX's.

............... GR's are more reliable than GPX's, again a point that is made by leading FTO garages in the UK...........

This is really misleading - I've had a GR for 2 years and it never let me down but neither has my present GPX which I've had for 2 years. The parts that generally give trouble are common to each model. Don't buy a GR on the basis thats its more reliable than a GPX.

I beg to differ mate. I'm not expressing an opinion here, working on facts The garages that deal throughout the UK with FTO's have agreed that they get far more problems with GPX's than GRs. It may well be that your cars have both been fine and thats great, but thats your cars, not an overall average of cars in general as expressed by the people that service and work on them. That is not to say btw that GPX's are unreliable, thats not the point I was making.

As regards the performance, this is generally agreed by owners in the UK. Time trials have proved as much. The performance difference between a tip GR & GPX IS negligible. And we're talking here non modified or similarly modified. Obviously if you have a seriously modded GPX (and some of the cars you used as an example on our forum are modded) then of course there will be a difference, but there again you can make similar mods to a GR!

Sorry mate

[Myfeckin FTO]

I beg to differ mate. I'm not expressing an opinion here, working on facts The garages that deal throughout the UK with FTO's have agreed that they get far more problems with GPX's than GRs. It may well be that your cars have both been fine and thats great, but thats your cars, not an overall average of cars in general as expressed by the people that service and work on them. That is not to say btw that GPX's are unreliable, thats not the point I was making.

Not too unlike yourself JJ I owned my first FTO over 6 years ago and read all the issues on the UK and Ireland forums that people have had with their cars - the vast majority of these seem to relate to parts that are similar on both models and these days (as the average age of the FTOs rise) it is even more true - Ancillary belts & Air con pulley / Stepper motor / head gasket / fuel pump / alternator etc. Both models give tappet problems but at least they're adjustable on the GPX.

I'm not argueing that the GR isn't more reliable - As a unit its not built to the same limits as the Mivec - I'm just saying it shouldn't be a deciding factor.

........ The performance difference between a tip GR & GPX IS negligible. And we're talking here non modified or similarly modified. Obviously if you have a seriously modded GPX (and some of the cars you used as an example on our forum are modded) then of course there will be a difference, but there again you can make similar mods to a GR!

170bhp GR or 197BHP GPX ? - I know what I'd rather be bringing down to a 1/4 mile sprint.

You'd have to go a long way with mods on a GR to bring it up to GPX power - Why not just start with a GPX?

I'm not defending any one model over the other - I've had both GR and GPX - all I'm saying is that if you want absolute performance then a manual GPX (or GPvR) is the best choice you can make.

[JJ]

Yep a manual will make the difference.
I'm not saying that the subject of this thread should be a deciding factor either mate, and I don't know why the extra bhp doesn't make much difference to the performance. But whatever you have, you have a great car and thats the important thing.
If I had bought a car for speed, the FTO probably wouldn't have been the one I would have chosen